An extra 28 days to negotiate (with minimal death)

Time is running out for our plucky AMs. If they can't get behind a first minister by next Friday (Saturday at a push) the whole of the country will grind to a halt instantly and there will be bedlam on the streets.

What's that, you say? Wales has been chugging along quite happily without a government? S4C2 hasn't been inundated with sackfulls of requests to play library footage of plenary sessions? Oh.

But, if the suited and the scarved in Cardiff Bay really need a couple of extra weeks to cut a deal, there is a possible way out.

All they need to do is come up with an evil murderous plot.

Much like the offering of a sacrificial virgin in Russian folklore, all assembly members must do is select one of their own to die for the cause of Welsh politics. First they nominate a first minister, then they kill him. That's because the government of Wales Act allows the assembly 28 days to nominate a first minister in the event that he passes away. Simple.

In fact, they need not even kill the chosen one. According to the legislation, merely rendering him "permanently unable to act" is sufficient enough. A bit like the cast of Belonging then.

Anyway, that's the method. All they need now is a victim...

Labels: , ,

posted by Blamerbell @ 12:23 am,

54 Comments:

At 1:15 am, Blogger Alwyn ap Huw said...

Janet Ryder?

 
At 1:24 am, Blogger Alwyn ap Huw said...

On second thoughts if we murder Nick we'll have Glyn back!

 
At 7:06 am, Anonymous Daran said...

You have been spending far too long with the new Welsh constitution and should get out more - and not just to the Oriel of the Assembly.

Should the sacrificial option emerge as a likely one, might I suggest that the sacrificial knives must be inserted in the back as the victim would be a politician?

 
At 8:56 am, Blogger Cymro said...

I vote for Mike German.

 
At 9:00 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seconded.

 
At 9:24 am, Blogger Luke Young said...

Is this what it's come to - contemplating murder to get some kind of government around here?
I thought those kind of days were long gone.... :)

Waiting for a government is a bit like waiting for christmas only come the 25th, we don't know if Santa's going to be dressed in red or if the little green elves are going to be helping out this year. wonder what toys will be popular this time - Peter Black Action Man? Llanelli Barbie by Helen Mary?

I hope someone does something interesting soon......

 
At 9:50 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A bit like the cast of Belonging then."

Wel, chwerthin! Ciaran, dwi wedi mynd yn gaeth i ddarllen dy flog am yr hiwmor yn ogystal a'r newyddiadura caboledig. Ac mi wyt ti'n sydyn iawn wrth ymateb. Roedd y riposte (i GT ar am/pm ddoe)am yr alarch ddoe fel mellten - oni bai bo chi'ch dau wedi ymarfer cyn ichi fynd yn fyw ynde ;-)
Ar y llaw arall, do'n i ddim yn siwr am y siaced dywyll/trwsus golau combo...;-)

ENG : the above is general well-deserved praise and flattery for Ciaran and a bit of gentle leg-pulling about his wardrobe.

soffa-sogwd

 
At 10:05 am, Blogger Blamerbell said...

I note all the suggestions so far. It doesn't have to be a virgin, remember:)

Baswn i'n meddwl fod y ffaith nad oedd ymarfer wedi digwydd ddoe yn berffaith amlwg! Ynglyn a'r combo: mae angen USP ar bawb dyddie 'ma yndoes? Wel, fy un i yw fy mod i'n gwisgo fel rhywun sy'n mynd i wylio'r criced. Sori.

 
At 10:56 am, Blogger Ted Jones said...

"permanently unable to act"

i thought that was the whole problem with the previous incumbent!!

 
At 11:04 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had to pinch myself when I got up this morning, facing the realisation of a non-Labour Government in Wales.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Plaid/Tory/Liberal coalition could bring in STV for Councils (would Hain dare to block it now that it's in Scotland?) that would wipe out Labour's stagnant elements and re-energise democracy in the 22 Counties.

They could also improve North South transport links(based on the IWA proposals), investigate the Barnett block, amalgamate NHS structures, have a 2nd Welsh language act, have tax breaks for small companies, set up some imaginative and effective environmental policies, help first time buyers and the social housing sector and look to adjust student funding/higher education to better suit the needs of Wales!

I've had a look at the 3 party's policies in these areas and on all, at least 2 out of the 3 agree, more or less. I do find it hard to imagine the Tories and Nationalists being comfortable bedfellows, but if it's about Wales and not the party, surely it's worth the risk?

From what I have seen in the Western Mail this morning, an agreeement with Labour is worthless, so it can only be a coalition. What will Rhodri have to offer the Liberals to get them into bed and avoid losing power?

 
At 11:28 am, Anonymous Matt Withers said...

Blamerbell. Just writing an article about blogging for this weekend and a thought struck me - will you be changing the title of this blog now Mr Tony's sauntering off to the lecture circuit and Brown's coming in?

Bromerbell Briefs, something like that?

 
At 11:54 am, Blogger Blamerbell said...

No.

Contrary to media reports banging on about Iraq and constitutional reform, Tony Blair's actual legacy will be this blog.

Given that I'm still getting an awful lot of hits from people searching google for "Blamberbell" and "Blimerballs" I don't think it would be wise to muddy the waters any further.

 
At 12:02 pm, Blogger Gwenno said...

Ciaran mae dy flog wedi gwneud i mi chwerthin yn y swyddfa heddiw - diolch am gymeryd fy sylw i ffwrdd o fy ngwaith!

 
At 3:47 pm, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Why am I not surprised?

Here we have a blog or a conversation in the English language, then, right in the middle of it, along come the Welsh speakers and start another conversation between themselves in Welsh. How discourteous.

Presumably the sole purpose of this is to exclude the Monoglots from this particular part of the conversation. Maybe they have comments that they wish to keep secret between themselves.

Anonymous @ 9.50AM gave us the gist of their posting but even that is not really satisfactory.

Blamerbell, are monoglots welcome here or not?

If we are? Kindly provide a translation service.

If we are not? Just tell us where to go.

This is just so typical of my experiences with Welsh speakers.

 
At 3:56 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Johnny Foreigner,

Are you being ironic or are you for real? Talk about paranoia.

 
At 4:01 pm, Blogger sarah said...

johnny foreigner- have you posted on the bbc 'have your say' page on the Welsh language yet? Views similar to yours seem to have found a home there. Wales is a bilngual nation after-all...

Mae'r blog yma yn lle i bobl trafod - (this blog is a space for people to discuss, debate). Making the conscious decision to write in Welsh need not mean that people are excluding monoglots - respondents are using a language they're comfortable with.

If you're that paranod re the comments, why not consult geiriadur.net?!

 
At 5:00 pm, Blogger Ifan Morgan Jones said...

Dw i jesd yn sgwennu hyn i wneud i Johnny Foreigner deimlo'n fwy anesmwyth.

 
At 5:08 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

johnny foreigner,
there is nothing ruder than someone pouncing on a Welsh blog site and behaving like a diva.

Wales has two languages, most people can understand a bit of welsh even if they can't speak it. Indeed it is very fashionable to be a Welsh learner, all over Britain.

There is no reason at all why Welsh speakers should not express themselves in their first language and speak Welsh when there are others welsh speakers around. It's not rude at all in Wales. All schools in Wales teach Welsh and by giving in to bullying like this we will be encouraging linguistical laziness.

...and i am not in cymdeithas yr Iaith, just an average plod, with average opinion...

 
At 6:40 pm, Blogger Geraint said...

I think Johhny Foriegner has a bit of a point, badly expressed, but stilll.

It would be polite for the people who don't speak Welsh on here to post a translation, its just good manners.

Oh and by the way, before you try to throw anything back, I don't speak Welsh so therefore cannot post any translation, and yes I am a proud Welsh man and I am have attempted to learn Welsh many times (once by a Canadian)and will do so again.

 
At 6:52 pm, Blogger hafod said...

Blamie can't win... he starts writing a column in Golwg and gets accused of being an "English" blogger by some tosspot who wanted the job.
Then there's a smattering of Welsh in the comments and Johnny Foreigner takes umbrage. That's the problem with the Brits, they're always taking something... India, Australia, most of Africa... now it's umbrage.

 
At 7:49 pm, Blogger dewi_o said...

As a Welsh speaker I have to agree with Geraint that the polite way would be translate Blogs in Welsh so everyone can understand or at least give the jist of the blog as most do.

Johnny Foreghner's views are not representative of the modern bilingual Wales and do more harm in dividing and polarizing opinions than any Welsh Language Blogs do.

 
At 8:27 pm, Blogger Guto said...

If only Martin Eaglestone had won Arfon, this would be the perfect position for him ;-)

 
At 8:36 pm, Blogger bethan said...

I understand your comments Hedd, but I don't think you can win either way!

 
At 8:43 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

I meddwl Wenglish ydi'r way i go-io. That ffordd everybody gallu understand beth you're dweud-ing. Mae this yn measure dylai Bethan think-io am pass yn the Assembly.

 
At 9:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

cymro:
r'odd wna'n tamaid bach o fes, better stick to colloqual deep west wales, me'n dod mas mwy rwydd. This will infuriate y rhai pure, rheina o s4c for instance.
Unfortunately, mae na dri siort o Gymraeg. Y north, y De a Caerdydd. A mwy o unfortunates, sometimes mae eisiau translator i gyfieithu y gwanhanol spokes.

blot o'r west

 
At 9:12 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spot the rude one:

A "Dwi am bostio sylw diniwed ar y blog hwn yn Gymraeg."

B "I insist that you post your comments on this blog in English."

No contest.

 
At 9:21 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

I'm cefnogi-ing messy sefyllfaoedd. Rwy'n think-io y point ydi that o hyd-ing rhai people yn unhappy gyda something. Mae Bethan is dangosing the ffordd with y bilingual blog. But dydi everyone methu do hyn - rhaid applaudio y those sydd do hyn, but ni can't cosbi those sydd can't.

 
At 9:23 pm, Anonymous Toto (In the Emerald City) said...

enough of this language stuff!!!

If this nonsense keeps up! Viceroy Hain could do the same to us, as he did with Northern Ireland

 
At 9:25 pm, Anonymous Dorothy said said...

impose direct rule!!!!!

 
At 9:32 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

cymro:
simo i'n gwbod le ti'n byw, ond dw'i ddim yn byw na!

trans
I don't know where you live, but i don't live there.

 
At 9:37 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

Viceroy Hain? Now that you mention it, he does look a bit like the evil guys in the Star Wars prequels!Anyway...

I agree, enough on language. If people can't handle the fact that some Welsh people feel more comfortable expressing themselvel in Welsh - shock horror! - then they need to fundamentally re-examine the workings of their neuron pathways!

I'm a first-language Welsh speaker - but I feel happy that my English is of a good standard, so I blog that way so that the miserable whingers can read what I say. But a lot of people, many friends included, don't feel very fluent in English.

When discussing Welsh matters, with comments that are directed at the topic, what kind of idiot would suggest that responding in either of our official languages was wrong?

 
At 9:39 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

Dwi'n byw yng Nghaernarfon, gyfaill. Does neb yn siarad fel yr oeddwn i yn y postiau uchod - dim ond ceisio gwneud argraff!

 
At 10:19 pm, Blogger David Thomas said...

Angytuno yn llwyr. Mae Eve Myles yn medru actio - a Donna wrth cwrs ond mae hi'n yn Newcastle neu rhywle (ar Radio Wales - syth ar ol Belonging cofiwch!!!).

 
At 10:42 pm, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Oh dear. I only asked for a translation.

From the tone of many of the responses it would appear that Monoglots are unwelcome here.

Am I to assume that unless one is fully bilingual certain responses remain secret.

I think cymro might be on the right track with Wenglish. With a little help from Geiriadur.net I understood the response but I'm afraid "dylai" stumped it.

Translation please.


Os gwelwch yn dda.

 
At 10:57 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

Should is the word you're looking for, mate. You do have a valid point but I think the responses demonstrate the strength of feeling on this. When a blog is an English-language blog then maybe it should be understandable to all readers. But the responses come from anywhere an anyone - and you have to accept that they have a right to express themselves in a way they feel comfortable, and not be as paranoid as to think that they're insults aimed at you!

 
At 11:19 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wasn't sure how to handle posting a comment - which was my first ever on a blog btw - and thought that because it didn't actually contribute to a poltical debate that no-one would be interested apart from Ciaran - it being quite personal an'all that.
Anyway, here's the Big Translation especially for Johnny Foreigner (just in case he's still feeling paranoid):

"Well, (I) laugh(ed)! Ciaran, I have become addicted to reading your blog for the humour aswell as the polished journalism. And you're very quick to respond. The riposte (to GT on am/pm yesterday) was like lightning - unless you had both rehearsed before going live of course ;-)
On the other hand, I wasn't sure about the dark jacket/light trousers combo...;)

Nos da
soffa-sogwd x

 
At 11:40 pm, Blogger Blamerbell said...

Bloody hell (Ms?) Soffa. You don't need to go to all that effort.

Blogs should resemble civilised conversation in real life as best as possible.

If I'm speaking Welsh in English speaking company, I expect those people to trust that I will not be talking about them.

In a bi-lingual society, conversations go off on all sorts of tangents and it's unreasonable to expect everything to be translated.

My rule here is that I will answer comments in the language in which they are written. So please do feel free to write in English, Welsh, French (to GCSE standard) or even Japanese if you wish:)

 
At 12:14 am, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Cymro and anonymous.

Thanks for your translations, most helpful.

I am pleased to note that you agree that I have a point, albeit robustly made.

I am fully appreciative of the strength of feeling on this touchy subject. Whilst some, yourselves included, accuse me of paranoia. Please believe me, I am not deluded with unjustified suspicions or even mistrust. I just can't speak Welsh.

Can you not see the frustrations that arise when an English language blog suddenly transmogrifies into a bilingual blog. This effectively immediately excludes the majority of posters on the net.

There are numerous links to English language blogs here and you must appreciate that the untranslated postings deter many posters from returning.

Are Uniaeths welcome or not. It's that easy.

Dioch yn fawr am eich ymfoddhad.

Gwenu 'sgwelch.

 
At 12:35 am, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Questions, questions.

Blamerbell.

If you are in English speaking monoglot company why DO you speak Welsh?

Notwithstanding elements of trust can you not see that the English speaker immediately wonders WHY you have suddenly changed language?

In the spirit of friendliness and open-heartedness please respond to the following.


ghotpu' qan, nuvpu' rop, puqpu' Qupqu' je jonbogh mIl'oD'e' rur DIS poH bIr.
nagh rur DIS poH bIr; naghvam yorDaq taHlaHbe' tI.
neb wIH, pachDu' jej joq rur DIS poH bIr.
meqvammo' pItlhob; majatlh: Supbogh DIS poH tuj loDHom Darur. yav DungDaq bImI'jaj. vaj nuleghjaj SoSlI' 'oHbogh pem Hov'e' 'ej HelIjDaq taHjaj tI 'IH.

Quite nicely put, don't you agree?

Your pal.

johnny.

 
At 9:12 am, Blogger Blamerbell said...

Why not?

This is a bilingual country. For certain people it's just as natural to speak Welsh as it is English.

If I were a monoglot English speaker I'd feel much more awkward knowing that two people who would normally speak to each other quite comfortably in Welsh had changed to English just so that I could listen in to check my paranoia.

Other bilingual cultures get along just fine flitting casually between languages. Wales should be no different.

 
At 10:19 am, Blogger Aran said...

Johnny F, you're way off the mark here. You should try a conversation in a group speaking Basque, Welsh, English, French and Spanish some time (oh, and word to the wise: don't tell the Basques they have to translate everything for you!).

In a bilingual society, you've got three choices: be bilingual, be tolerant or be aggressive.

Wyt ti wirioneddol yn meddwl do you really think bod bob tro mae rhywun that every time someone yn siarad Cymraeg speaks Welsh a bod rhywun uniaeth and a monoglot o fewn pellter clywed is within hearing distance dylai'r siaradwr Cymraeg the Welsh speaker gyfieithu pob dim should translate everything?!

Shortcut route to making bloody sure that none of us ever understand anyone else ever again...;-)

 
At 2:07 pm, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Blamerbell.

I feel that you haven't really understood my point.

If you have group of people, all of whom speak English, some bi- or even tri-lingual, being engaged in conversation in the English language can you not see the plain discourtesy of certain members of that group to suddenly break off into another language? Be it Welsh, Basque, Spanish or any other language.

Can you not see that this indicates immediately to the monoglot parties to this conversation that the words spoken in other languages would not be intended for their ears?. Why the secrecy?

Obviously, if one were to be in a conversation where a number of languages were being spoken one would obviusly hold ones counsel and would join the conversation as and when able.

Nevertheless when ALL parties to the conversation speak a universal language any diversion from that universal language is just plain rude.

Whilst I fully appreciate that Wales is 'officially' a bilingual country.In terms of everyday use and sheer practicality English is the language of choice, even for many Welsh speakers.

I am making some small effort to gain a greater understanding of the Welsh language but will never reach conversational level.

Nevertheless, I have made use of it on many occasions on my meanderings through Wales. For instance, I know that I won't find 'Pen-y-Mynydd' at the bottom of a valley and that 'Maes-y-Felin' is probably near an area with a river with what probably looks like an old mill.

I do try but would ask that more consideration be given to the monoglot if only for the sake of courtesy. I thank you.

For the benefit of Blamerbell who was unable to respond in my chosen language (GCSE level) in my previous posting I hereby append an English translation. I am quite sure that a Welsh version would adequately convey the same message.


The cold season resembles a sabre bear which seizes old people, ill people, and very young children.
The cold season resembles a rock; on the upper surface of this rock, vegetation cannot endure.
The cold season resembles a ruthless beak and/or sharp talons.
For this reason we plead with you. We say:

"You resemble a jumping hot season's boy. May you dance over the ground. Then may the daytime star which is your mother see us and may beautiful vegetation continue on your route."

These words contain a simple beauty that is not of this World.




My chosen language of the day:-









Klingon.

 
At 12:27 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Klingon?? Well, I think that says more about you than any other post you have made on this (or probably any other) blog

 
At 6:25 pm, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Anonymous said...
Klingon?? Well, I think that says more about you than any other post you have made on this (or probably any other) blog

12:27 PM

More Nationalistic nastiness.

As I originally posted :-

Why am I not surprised?

Your pal.

johnny.

 
At 7:23 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not nationalistic nastiness at all Johnny - I'm not even Welsh.

Anyone sad enough to believe Klingon to be anything more than a jumbled nonsense on a film let alone study it or try to learn to speak it is a geek and dweeb of the highest order.

 
At 8:48 pm, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Anonymous said...
Not nationalistic nastiness at all Johnny - I'm not even Welsh.

Anyone sad enough to believe Klingon to be anything more than a jumbled nonsense on a film let alone study it or try to learn to speak it is a geek and dweeb of the highest order.

7:23 PM

Oh dear, you are so misinformed.

May I respectfully suggest that you do a Google search for the Klingon language and you may be unpleasantly surprised that it is a fully fledged language in its own right and has many students worldwide.

Presumably you would feel a little miffed if I described Welsh language speakers as follows :-

"Anyone sad enough to believe Welsh to be anything more than a jumbled nonsense let alone study it or try to learn to speak it is a geek and dweeb of the highest order".

Sound familiar?

Like I said, more nationalistic nastiness.

I have made my postings in a friendly and open-hearted manner and, with a few exceptions have been met with nationalistic nastiness from many quarters.

At the risk of repeating myself, I say again :-

Why am I not surprised?

Your pal.

johnny.

 
At 10:35 pm, Blogger Gwawr Esyllt said...

Well I have to say Johnny if you believe that you've been posting in a "friendly and open-hearted" manner maybe you should read over what you’ve written again. In a way you’re saying that it's more important for you to understand all the posts, than for others to post in the language most comfortable to them.

I think the fact that this debate is happening at all shows that in the eyes of some people Welsh isn't as equal as English. From my travelling experiences (mainly in South America and South East Asia) I have found that the only people to take offence when the conversation is turned to Welsh in front of others is the English speakers. Now I don't know whether that comes from the history of the language or what, but sadly it's true. (I don't mean that at a criticism to anyone it's just and observation.)

Pam allwn ni ddim i gyd gyd-fyw yn gyfartal a heddychlon dwch? (

 
At 11:55 pm, Blogger Geraint said...

The fact is that people who post here in English, and do not understand Welsh, want to understood what is being said, since it is contributing to the discussion, it is common manners to include everyone in the discussion, not just Welsh speakers.

It is reactions like the one Johnny Foriegner has got, that gives all Welsh speakers a bad name, when it is only a minority that are over defencive when anyone even dares mention translating Welsh into English (as best as it can be translated, however it is only a minority who over-react in such an aggressive manner, most Welsh speakers are more then happy to be inclusive and not exclusive.

 
At 3:46 am, Anonymous johnny foreigner aka ioan estron said...

Well there you are then.

The two sides in a nut shell in the last two posts from 'gwawr esyllt' and 'geraint'.

gwawr essyllt: Dawn/daybreak plank/board? I'm puzzled. Is this correct?

You claim that my postings are not friendly or open-hearted. I have re-read my postings and can only observe that I have asked a polite question about translations and the apparent exclusion of monoglots. Which part do you object to?

You claim that I feel that it is more important for me to understand all the posts and object to posters using their language of choice. That is not quite correct. I merely requested translation.

In a conversation, discussion or blog one presumes that the purpose of this activity is to communicate. Presumably, by opposing the posting of translations you would wish to exclude monoglots and limit part of your communication. Am I right or wrong?

It has been impertinently suggested that I obtain a dictionary. I have dictionaries in many languages, Welsh included. You may be aware that to translate Welsh from a dictionary can be somewhat difficult when the various mutations are taken into account. If fact, in trying to translate the note at the end of your posting I can only come up with "why............equal....peaceful? Translate please. I'd love to know what you said or would you prefer me not to know?

This debate is not about equality it is about courtesy, good manners, consideration for others and whether or not monoglots are welcome here. From what I have heard to date there is a distict air of unfriendliness towards the monoglot by many, which prompted my original musing "Why am I not surprised"?

You claim that there is a perception of inequality between English and Welsh. Inequality in what form? A language is a language is a language. There are no league tables for languages.

Without wishing to offend anyone I would state that English is universally understood throughout the World. It is the language of choice for Maritime and Aeronautical communication and is frquently used for International communications between countries with differing languages. There is not much call for the use of Welsh in these areas but this has absolutely no bearing on the equality of the language.

In my not inconsiderable foreign travels, my experience shows me that whilst any different language from the indigenous arouses curiosity, most locals want to practice their English. In fact my somewhat limited use of Klingon in a number of countries has aroused curiosity for many.

Unfortunately, on this po-faced blog I have failed completely. The only response received has been rude and offensive. Why am I not surprised?

In a further, probably useless, effort to stimulate a more friendly atmosphere around here I offer for your interest a small passage that may interest some of you Welsh speakers :-


Can ill cel er ffaeth
Pab cos er agabad.
Se'll porch ngwenirew rhen, se ys mhellerew rhen a fodd,
no'll fflur cruiscerew subr ill mont,
no'll yspad di lla bedr segarew i llo chyfidd,
e ddunarew a fodd ill culff a'll dragun.
Per llo h-enifal h-iewan h-iogafant geiddadfent,
e'll fflur cruiscef perch ill cel ngwenif rhen di seruin.
Gwerdad, ill cel ngwenif rhen di seruin.

Come on Blamerbell.

You promised to respond to a posting in the language in which it was written, up to GCSE level.

You let me down on the Klingon (GCSE level).

This may be a little easier for you. I'll provide a translation if required but would not wish to contravene your latest custom and practice ruling without your prior approval.


Geraint, old buddy, old pal.

Thank goodness for an oasis of understanding in this desert of nationalistic nastiness and linguistic apartheid.

I am heartened to see that you fully understand my point of view and I thank you for it, notwith standing your tacit disapproval of my manner of expression.

Obviously, like me, you are a person accustomed to simple everyday courtesy. Unhappily, we appear to be part of a very small minority on this particular blog.

Again, why am I not surprised?

A final word for Blamerbell.

Please excuse the blatant hi-jacking of your original thread but I am afraid that I could not let the various clearly unfriendly responses, your own included, to go unchallenged. This is who I am.

I am Spartacus.

Also known as.

Your pal.

johnny.

 
At 4:15 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!
Johnny,
Kilingon is a language made up for a film and tv series, the fact that a load of geeks decided to try and make it an official language doesn't, in any way, make it so.

Welsh, on the other hand is, I pesume, spoken by many people in the country of Wales. Like I said earlier, I'm not Welsh so your reply about how would I feel if you descrbed Welsh thus is irrelveant, I'm a Lancastrian!

Speaking Klingon is tantamount to believing that Star Wars is real!

I bet you are the bloke in the cinema who sits there and says things like "I think you'll find that paticular brand of motor vehicle wasn't introduced until 1965, this film is supposed to be set in 1962"

 
At 4:17 pm, Blogger Gary said...

Your use of Google to find Brythonic text is astounding Johnny. How can I ever thank you?

 
At 9:28 pm, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

Anonymous said...
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!
Johnny,

Nonny.

At least I've provided a laugh but true to form you can't resist the personal insult can you?

Klingon is just another means of communication. If you just want to stick to old languages that's fine but please don't insult those with unblinkered vision and broad horizons.

You seek to mock the concept of Star Wars. The future is out there Nonny. There are those of us who are not content to wallow in trogloditic Nirvana in dank and misty hollows. Some of us have vision beyond the limits of this Planet. Of course we may be wrong but the exploration is a lot of fun.

A simple answer to your final, rather weak attempt at mockery :-

Details, dear boy. Details.



Gary:

Almost there pal. It's actually Brythenig an interesting precursor to Welsh. At least you made the effort.

In recognition of this and out of common courtesy I append a translation :-

When the sky was made
Everything was completed.
If the pig could not come, if he could not drive away,
nor the flower could grow on the mountain,
nor the sword from the rock cut into pieces,
and give away the blow to the dragon.
For the young animals played joyfully,
and the flower grew because the sky did not become clear.
Indeed, the sky did not become clear.


Blamerbell:

I would respectfully refer you to the following :-

Blamerbell said...
Bloody hell (Ms?) Soffa. You don't need to go to all that effort.

BB. Blogs should resemble civilised conversation in real life as best as possible.

JF. If ALL persons in conversation speak a common language, those who suddenly revert to another not commonly understood language without translation are plainly RUDE.

BB. If I'm speaking Welsh in English speaking company, I expect those people to trust that I will not be talking about them.

JF. Why ARE you speaking Welsh in monoglot English speaking company? Can you not see that without translation that this is just plain RUDE?

BB. In a bi-lingual society, conversations go off on all sorts of tangents and it's unreasonable to expect everything to be translated.

JF. Why is it unreasonable? Do you wish to exclude the monoglot?

BB. My rule here is that I will answer comments in the language in which they are written. So please do feel free to write in English, Welsh, French (to GCSE standard) or even Japanese if you wish:)

JF. You failed at the first hurdle.

11:40 PM

Blamerbell:

Your considered and definitive response would be gratefully accepted.

On the other hand you may just wish to ignore it but I can assure you that this subject will arise again.

Presumably, Welsh speakers would wish more people to learn the language. Well, I can assure you that you are going the wrong way about it.

If translation were to be provided alonside Welsh text, monoglots could at least have an idea of vocabulary, grammar and context without the laborious hassle of interpreting each individual word and coping with mutations.

Who knows? some may even pick up a few words and a phrase or two and hopefully a bit of grammar and context and take an interest in learning rather than feel excluded and say "Bollocks to this, I won't bother, I'll go elsewhere".

All offered in the spirit of friendliness and open-heartedness.

I am Spartacus.

Nah, not really.

I'm just.

Your pal.

johnny.

 
At 9:44 pm, Blogger Gwawr Esyllt said...

I have no interest in debating about the equality of languages with you Johnny. From what I understand of this discussion it isn't about if monoglots are welcomed or not. Of course I haven't got anything against them, why would I? I'm not going to discriminate against anyone on the basis of language.

However I do feel that the purpose of this comment board is for people to write Comments, mainly to Ciaran Jenkins. If it was your blog this might be a different story. So therefore I don't understand why you have such a problem with people writing in Welsh- in an ideal world everyone would understand each other, but sadly it's not true.

One of the main reasons the Welsh language is in such a state at the moment is because of our 'courteous' attitude towards our friends from next door moving to the area. So much so that English was seen as a more practical language than Welsh. Well that was a long time ago now, and even though I do think curtsey is a very important trait in ALL people, for two languages to live in harmony in one country there needs to be a little give and take from both sides. (My last comment was: “Why can't we all live peacefully and in harmony together?” sorry if the translation isn't that good. And it wasn’t so that you wouldn't understand- no need to get paranoid, only that I feel I can express myself better in Welsh.)

I'm very sad to hear of the low opinion you have of us Welsh speakers. But really do you blame us for being a tad defensive when there has been such a dramatic fall in the use of the Language? I do hope I haven't managed to offend you further, only that you see my point of view better.

Oh and my name means Beautiful Dawn, not plank! I hope you're not expecting a translation of everyone's name as well?!

 
At 12:31 am, Anonymous johnny foreigner said...

No offense taken Gwawr Esyllt and I hope that you will excuse my rather clumsy attempt at translating your name. Hopefully you will acknowledge that my mistake was easy to make.

I don't have 'esyllt' in my dictionary and for 'beautiful' it gives 'prydferth,hardd or teg'.

Now I'm really confused. I think I'll stick to Klingon.

Please don't think that I have a low opinion of Welsh Speakers. I just have low opinion of people who, when engaged in English language conversation with monoglots, suddenly change language with utter disregard as to whether ALL in the conversation understand. Plain rude IMHO.

You appear to despair at the state of the Welsh language and its apparent decline. I can only refer you to my previous posting wherein I made what I believe to be a perfectly sensible suggestion re: translation. I'm on your side.
That's it.

Whilst I'm here I would like to thank Blamerbell for the patience and indulgence shown in allowing this blatant thread hi-jack to continue.

I think that the debate will continue as there seems no end to it.

 

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