Will Black spoil the rainbow? UPDATE: Yes!
Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Two key meetings tonight, both in Llandrindod. The Conservatives' management board are meeting in the 1930s Metropole Hotel - I'm told it's a shoo in. Meanwhile the Lib Dem National Executive is getting together in the Media Resource Centre.

This is much more difficult to call. Even though they voted by 9-3 to suspend talks with Labour last week, a number of Lib Dem legends and Peter Black are thought to be against teaming up with Plaid and the Tories. Activists were out in numbers - thought to be at least 12 - to make their opposition known.

"What do we want?"

"Constitutional reform and the introduction of a single transferable voting system in local government," they shouted.

"When do we want it?"

"After a majority vote in the national executive, a special conference in an unspecified location and even then not really," they cried.

To be updated.

UPDATE: The Lib Dems have voted to halt all talks. That means the end of the rainbow.

Lib Dem leader (for the moment) Mike German said: "We had a very throughtful discussion... it was clear that there was a deep division on this matter and the party decided that it would not be possible to move forward and to recommend this to a special party conference.

"There will be no vote from our party to support a first minister next week."

Whatever happened to more votes, more seats, more power, more influence?

They'd won the PR argument (a huge coup for such a small party). No doubt there were other Lib Dem policies in there too. Perhaps it came down to the toothbrushes...

Labels: , , ,

posted by Blamerbell @ 10:02 pm,

93 Comments:

At 10:30 pm, Blogger Alwyn ap Huw said...

Lib-Dems have just announced that they will NOT support the Rainbow coalition.

 
At 10:32 pm, Blogger Lyndon said...

If the LibDems screw this up I'll never vote for one of their mangy councillors again. You've been warned Lembit (if you've bothered to turn up this time that is).

 
At 10:35 pm, Blogger ganesh family said...

lib dems not to support anyone!!!!
who would have thout it
What next - back to the polls me thinks

 
At 10:35 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whats the point of the Lib Dems

 
At 10:39 pm, Blogger Lyndon said...

Oh well, Plan B, prop up doddering old Rhodri for another four years. I won't rest until every last LibDem in Wales is hunted down and soundly thrashed. Call themselves a political party? They should be sued under the Trades Descriptions Act.

 
At 10:42 pm, Blogger Geraint said...

German: Peter, Ieuan has offered a Lib Dems in a rainbow coalition, Lib Dem Policies and PR in local government.....Deal....or No Deal?

Black: No Deal

German: Let see what is in your Box

*Box Opens reveals....long term oppisition and a kicking in 2008 council elections*

-----------------------------------

Actually I m a bit upset over this, it will be VERY bad news for Labour, since we would have to either have a minority Labour government, or another election (which would be bad news for every single party in Wales and devolution and very irresponbile of any party to let that happen)

Sadly for the ones in Welsh Labour who want to see the party modernised for devolution, it leaves them in a very difficult position.

 
At 10:44 pm, Blogger gwe said...

Am I surprised? No.

Will IWJ be surprised? Judging by his big fat smile yesterday, then yes.

Didn't he see this coming? Or was Mr German leading him on?

This really is starting to get ridiculous.

 
At 10:46 pm, Blogger Blamerbell said...

Promising to deliver opposition politics was about the only policy that wasn't in the Lib Dem manifesto!

 
At 10:49 pm, Blogger gwe said...

Geraint, they may be hope. Perhaps the Fab 4, sorry 5, last night made it possible for Plaid sidle up to Labour a second time without looking completely stupid - if Labour still wants to talk, that is...

 
At 10:50 pm, Blogger hafod said...

The party top knobs disregarded the grassroots at their peril - German is now sausage meat.
Can't be a rainbow with just two colours - so that's dead.
Labour-Plaid deal anyone?

 
At 10:52 pm, Blogger Rod said...

Time to start organising a tactical vote against Lib Dems - how about all Tories in Ceredigion vote Plaid and vice versa in Montgomeryshire in the next General Election/Assembly Election. That way we can get pro-Wales politicians that are prepared to think outside the box.

 
At 11:02 pm, Blogger gwe said...

newelshright - This reflects far worse on the Lib Dem 'leadership' in the Assembly that it does on the party at large. You can't seriously enter into coalition talks knowing that these will be overturned,

As for propping up Labour - they can't seriosuly expect to form a minority government for the full term and just wave their policies through. They will eventually have to come to some sort of agreement with someone. And that's Plaid.

Unless the Lib Dems change their minds again, of course.

 
At 11:02 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Lib/Dems should disband now.
There is no true place for them in Welsh politics any more , they are the independents with a name.

 
At 11:05 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this Black's revenge for being embarrassed over his very public hissy fit over German straight after the election? Swansea will not forget being made to look silly. He forgets who votes Lib/Dems.

 
At 11:06 pm, Blogger Lyndon said...

I'm still incredulous really. What were they thinking? "If we don't actually stand for anything then noone will vote against us?"

 
At 11:12 pm, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

I can't for a second work out the Libs thinking.

Working with either Labour or the Rainbow, they'd get some Lib policies in, they'd get control over ministries i.e. they could DO things.

Instead they want to hide as the smalles opposition, being blamned by everyone for messing up Wales
.

So they dont gain in power, dont gain in influence, dont gain in respect and sure as hell won't gain in votes. Are these people really politicians?

 
At 11:14 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Real Democracy + politics is not about getting Ministerial posts and cobbling together false alliances that in practice will lead to stale inaction on the real issues in Wales, it's about policy, ideology and representing the people who voted for you - a lot of people voted lib dem to keep the Tories out as well as labour and at least the lib dems are sticking to their principals rather than seeking a cheap seat of power and pursuing individuals ministerial aspirations! Is everybody here a disapointed power hungry con or what - people didn't vote for the cons to be in power + thank god now they won't be.

 
At 11:16 pm, Blogger Geraint said...

Hear that? It is the sound of the assassin's bullet being fired, and it is heading towards Mike German

 
At 11:19 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

German to resign by the end of next week?

 
At 11:19 pm, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

11:14 anon -

peoiple voted Lib to get Lib policies into practice. To do that they could deal with plaid and tories or with labour.

Whatever you might think of Plaid's decision last mnight, at least they MADE a decision. Libs had a chance, with Lab or Rainbow, to allow their voteres voices to be heard, to get Libs policies into practice.

By turning down both they've given up any right to be called politicians

 
At 11:20 pm, Blogger Welsh Spin said...

Sitting on the fence is a position the Lib Dems are normally well used to - so in some ways it is amusing to watch them now impale themselves.

 
At 11:21 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a Plaid supporter and I supported the rainbow coalition, but this is bad for Plaid isn't it? On the one hand they've shown that they're prepared to work with Tories, which, to some people is almost a crime against humanity. However, they might have got those voters back if they made the coalition work. Now they won't get the chance.

 
At 11:22 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Are these people really politicians? "

Remember this is not the old Liberal Party of Lloyd George's era, it is the result of a marriage between the SDP (all right wing Labour, like NuLabour)with the then flagging Liberal Party.
They survive at local government level but even then are wishy washy. We in Swansea have a Lib/Dem council and they are hopeless.
This must be the end for them.

 
At 11:22 pm, Blogger Dylan said...

Just bizzare. What are they playing at? Hardly a policy issue: PR was surely in the bag.

Before tonight I got cross when people called these talks a shambles. With a more proportional system, it's going to have to be coalitions so a degree of compromise is going to be inevitable and indeed desirable. But, well, yeah this is a bit of a shambles.yexh

 
At 11:24 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

New Welsh Right said!
"he Libs have propped Labour up without getting any of their demands met or getting any ministers. Idiots."

Your the same guy whose site said that had a post that was dead against a coalition between "socialist" Plaid Cymru and "capitalist" Tories.

So what makes an heir of Maggie Thatcher change his (or her)mind.

The Liberals are not supporting anyone!

You can't just accuse the Liberals of opportunism.

 
At 11:25 pm, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

anon 11:21

maybe, but it might also deflect so much anger towards the Libs that Plaid dont get so much heat.

IWJ could, if Plaid so wish, also present himself at the man willing to sacrifice fighting for First Minister and do a deal with Labour "for the sake of saving Wales"

 
At 11:25 pm, Blogger Huw said...

A re-election is looking more and more probable. Everyone will come out worse, and Lib Dems wont be forgiven for forcing this upon the Welsh again.

 
At 11:28 pm, Blogger gwe said...

Anonymous said...
"Real Democracy + politics is not about getting Ministerial posts and cobbling together false alliances that in practice will lead to stale inaction on the real issues in Wales, it's about policy... "

Exactly. So why bottle two chances of putting at least some of your policies into practise?

Mike German even makes Rhodri Morgan look decisive. And that's saying something.

 
At 11:29 pm, Blogger Rod said...

If it goes to another election at least that's another opportunity to get Glyn Davies and Dafydd Wigley back.

 
At 11:32 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plaid should go back to Labour and see what's still on offer. Surely our Democracy cannot rest in the hands of Trish Law?

 
At 11:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, Ciaran, it could get wierder.

I knew Saturday would be hard for the Lib Dems - and always thought the members could derail the train but tonight has stunned me. This was the very same group of people who green lighted the rainbow last week.

I thought political parties always operated to their own advantage. I'd love for someone to explain the advantage for the Lib Dems of the last 6 days. This defies analysis - and thank God the UK media didn't follow it. They may do now. It's the wrong button writ large.

This defies analysis.

 
At 11:34 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no way there will be another election. No way at all. its madness to even contemplate it. The best the rainbow parties can hope for now (and what has been the Black, HMJ strategy all along)is to spend another four years kicking the shit out of Labour. But to what end? I dont know? If they are not prepared to take power now when will they ever? Or perhaps HMJ is not interested in government, only in having another crack at replacing Ieaun?

 
At 11:34 pm, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

The only people who can gain from a new election is UKIP. People will be so piossed off at the Assembly they could turn against it.

Rgodri must be kicking himself for making his desperate offer to Plaid public now though. What does he do if Plaid turns round and says - yeah, go on then!

 
At 11:36 pm, Blogger gwe said...

Anon - "I'm a Plaid supporter and I supported the rainbow coalition, but this is bad for Plaid isn't it?"...

Not necessarily. Whatever your take on it. Plaid have shown that they were willing to take the risk. Yesterday was the day IWJ was no longer wobbly.

Their credability has increased. Whether Labour now takes them more seriously is another matter.

 
At 11:37 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

....a lot of people voted lib dem to keep the Tories out as well as labour and at least the lib dems are sticking to their principals rather than seeking a cheap seat of power and pursuing ......



that's masquerading as a political party. all putty and no glass.

 
At 11:38 pm, Blogger Geraint said...

He saids yes? I am still form a formal Red-Green (Plaid-Labour) coalition myself, with both parties having cabinet but I don't see that happening myself, not this term anyway.

 
At 11:39 pm, Blogger Luke Young said...

If Plaid have any sense they'll ring rhodri and see whats still on the table. We still need a stable government, I see no reason why talks couldn't resume between Labour & Plaid.

 
At 11:41 pm, Blogger Geraint said...

Oh, and Anon 11:14 PM, they may not have voted for Labour, Plaid or the Tories to be in govenrment, but the majority of them did vote for a majority government (be it Plaid-Lab, Lib-Lab, Rainbow or whatever) They did not vote for a minority government, they did not vote for no government and they did certainly not vote for another election in a month.

 
At 11:41 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rod said...
'If it goes to another election at least that's another opportunity to get Glyn Davies and Dafydd Wigley back. '

And all the Lib/Dems out

 
At 11:43 pm, Blogger gwe said...

Luke,

I think that should read "if Rhodri has any sense he'll ring Plaid..." :)

We live in hope, eh?

(From another Labour/Plaid coalition supporter)

 
At 11:44 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

The Lib Dems were formed from the dregs of two failing parties. Guess what that means! I had my reservations about the rainbow, but it was the only option on offer! What the hell do the Lib Dems want?

They're all for STV - which will mean... coalitions! What are they playing at?

 
At 11:45 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think the electorate will forgive the Lib Dems for committing themselves to four years in opposition (or the prospects of another election soon). People will perceive there is no point in voting for them next time so who will be the beneficiaries of the Lib Dems meltdown?

 
At 11:46 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see that The Rainbow Whoriors finally are seeing sense and taking my advice.

My further advice to them would be to just talk amongst yourselves for a while and make some profound interesting and conciliatory noises.

For presently, the Old Lion, Rhodri himself, with that knowing look, will stretch slowly and yawn. He will shake his mane and softly pad from his lair.

He will make his regal way to the Sennedd and resume his rightful position as First Minister.

He will then summon the Rainbow crew to lay before him their humble offerings.

As a Prince of Magnanimity he will permit them to make suitable obeisances and will allow the Sennedd carry on where they all left off, having wasted weeks on their futile arguments.

Hopefully then we may see, a few lessons having been learned, that Rhodri will realise that he and his Party have much to do to regain the confidence of the People of Wales. Me included.

Your pensive pal.

johnny.

 
At 11:47 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But the Lib Dem triple lock worked. All three groups needed to return a majority vote. The negotiating team did: 5:3; the AMs did 4:2; the exec was a dead heat. No majority. No special conference."

From Betsan's blog

 
At 11:48 pm, Blogger Huw said...

After further thinking upon the whole situation, Plaid could actually benifit from this.

Should Plaid resume talks with Labour, and demand what was published in their paper such as the referendum and such, opposition from pro-Unionists such as Leighton Andrews and Huw Lewis, would give the public the impression that Labour is stifling devolution.

 
At 11:54 pm, Blogger Luke Young said...

"We've always said that our door was open to talk to either the Lib Dems or Plaid Cymru. Nothing has changed in that. Our aim has always been to provide a stable government for the next four years." - Labour tonight

let's see if the leaders can get together and sort this out before Trish Law is forced to use her vote.

 
At 11:54 pm, Blogger gwe said...

Also on Betsan's blog...

This just in from Labour:

"We've always said that our door was open to talk to either the Lib Dems or Plaid Cymru. Nothing has changed in that. Our aim has always been to provide a stable government for the next four years."

Since the Lib Dems have slammed the door shut, surely Plaid can now walk in and sit down at that table?

 
At 11:55 pm, Blogger Cymro said...

I agree that Plaid could benefit. But Plaid and Labour need to work something out soon - another elecction will be a gift to UKIP, and worse, the BNP!

Thank you, Lib Dems...

 
At 11:58 pm, Blogger Deleted said...

This will probably strengthen the hand of the decenters in Plaid too.

Since no one wants an election, I think a Labour minority government is starting to look likely.

After all, in Scotland the SNP & Greens only have 49 seats, far short of the 65/66 needed for a majority.

 
At 12:01 am, Blogger Welsh Spin said...

I simply don't think it is going to be possible or desirable for Plaid and Labour to stitch up a deal before Plaid's conference on Saturday. Any deal would also have to be ratified on the Labour side and they would find calls for a special Labour Party CXonference hard to resist.

My prediction is that DET will refrain from voting from the Chair and Rhodri will be installed with Trish Law's vote ...

 
At 12:04 am, Blogger Cymro said...

People keep asking "What is the point of the Lib Dems?". On careful analysis, this is the answer:

There is no point to the Lib Dems.

 
At 12:04 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trish law has already stated that she will not vote in favour of Rhodri as FM. This just in from Ieuan Wyn Jones:

"The people of Wales deserve leadership and a stable government. Plaid Cymru offered that option but the Liberal Democrats have tonight turned their backs on their duty to the people of wales and have shown absolute contempt for the electorate. It was as a result of their decision to suspend talks with Labour that Plaid Cymru was required to offer an alternative government. The Liberal Democrats have now shown that they are unable to take serious decisions and are undeserving of government. The proposed coalition between Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats is now dead. We will reflect on tonight's decision and the Assembly group will meet tomorrow to reflect on what happens next."

 
At 12:04 am, Blogger gwe said...

Labour would be foolish to go it alone. They can't afford to spend another four years haggling over every single piece of legislation -particularly not under the new GoW Act - where there will be far more presure to come up with something coherent.

It could happen, yes, but it would be the worst possible option.

 
At 12:05 am, Blogger Ian said...

Peter Black along with his colleagues have just closed Morriston Neurosurgery Unit; the very unit he claimed he was fighting to keep open.

The Lib Dems have also made a mockery of our already shambolic post-election democracy and I agree with the comment about the lack of London coverage. I was angry about this a few hours ago and I'm praying that they don't cover it now.

On another issue, you know the document that Labour gave to the journalists, claiming that it was what was offered to Plaid? Well it wasn't. They gave Plaid a document with various policies in italics which had not yet been approved by their leadersip. The italics plus this clarification were removed from the journalist's copies.

Guess what their defence was?

Ohh sorry - we gave you the wrong copy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So Plaid can't trust Labour, they can't trust the Fib Dems and the only ones who were straight with them were the Tories.

What the bloody hell is going on in Welsh politics and how am I supposed to go knocking on doors in antoher election and ask people to trust me, when so many Welsh politicians are lying, two faced bastards?

 
At 12:07 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Trish law has already stated that she will not vote in favour of Rhodri as FM."

Oh? When was this? She's asked to sit on the Labour benches and has, as far as i know, indicated that she will support RM to be FM.

 
At 12:11 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"My prediction is that DET will refrain from voting from the Chair and Rhodri will be installed with Trish Law's vote ..."

The DPO wont have a vote either - so it would be a tie of 26-26 (Lib Dems with 6 + PO and DPO make 60)

 
At 12:11 am, Blogger gwe said...

Ian, if this is true this is truly disgraceful. The Labour leadership had better shape up or it won't be just an embarrassing muddle we're in, but a constitutional crisis.

 
At 12:11 am, Blogger Luke Young said...

pam fi duw - Trish said live on the bbc on election night that if she had to choose she would vote Labour (actually she said New Labour)

Although that doesn't mean that she won't take some advice from Dai and the boys from PV first. If they get to her, we may find ourselves with a plaid FM yet

 
At 12:16 am, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

Luke - according to the BBC she said today she wouldn't vote for Rhodri as FM if it was Labour v Plaid & Tories

Ian - If thats true then Rhodri must be kicking himself. He cant back down from the public offer now, or he'll be seen as the one who forces Wales to another election!

 
At 12:19 am, Blogger Geraint said...

Labour and Plaid need to work together, their is not other choice apart from a new election, which would damage support for devolution for a while, and I don't think the majority of Labour AMs, nor the entire Plaid Cymru AMs want that to happen.

 
At 12:21 am, Blogger Luke Young said...

Guto, if that is true, then we could be heading for the biggest u-turn in welsh political history. The Peoples Voice/Independent Socialist Assembly member voting the Tories into government. Theres a lot of good faith for Trish and her party in Blaenau Gwent, but even amongst her supporters a vast majority would rather vote labour than Tory.

 
At 12:28 am, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

Luke - That's what Vaughan and Betsan said on their respective blogs anyway. They say she's indicated she'll vote for the "mini-rainbow" and not Labour.

Can't see Plaid wanting to soldier on with just the Tories though, so I guess Trish won't have to cast that vote

 
At 12:28 am, Blogger Blamerbell said...

I think this is getting somewhat spurious now:)

Admittedly, nobody expected a rainbow coalition six months ago but a straight Plaid-Tory coalition is even more unlikely.

 
At 12:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Can't see Plaid wanting to soldier on with just the Tories though, so I guess Trish won't have to cast that vote."

The Lib Dems were crucial. As Plaid has already said, the rainbow is dead. The mini one is impossible - they would be very hard pushed to get that through National Council on Saturday

 
At 12:31 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sure I'll get shot down by the Nats on here, but here goes, nevertheless...

Even if some in Labour are daft enough to touch the Nats with a barge-pole, many of us Labourites now have some very firm evidence that Plaid really are the bunch of daffodil Tories we have been telling people about for ages.

There's no going back on that now.

 
At 12:35 am, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

While, according to Ian, Plaid has very firm evidence that Labour are the liars everyone's always accused them of being.

But seeing as how the choice is between Labour and Plaid working together or a new election, I guess you so-called Jihadists in Labour will just have to swallow that giant bitter pill and work with the awful Nashies.

 
At 12:36 am, Blogger Ian said...

The main problem here is that no-one trusts each other and we have a few days to come to an agreement to run our nation.

Trying to be spite-free for a few seconds, the only likely option now is an agreement between Labour and Plaid in order to create a stable Government. No-one in their right minds would now trust the Lib Dems with any deal, Labour and Plaid cannot do a deal with the Tories and so what choice is there?

The alternative is a Labour minority Government that will last until after next year's Council elections, when the Lib Dems will suddenly put Wales first once more and work towards a 'rainbow coalition.'

This is no longer about petty party politics but about saving devolution.

 
At 12:41 am, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

Ian - agreed, Plaid and Labour have to agree on something.

Ieuan should walk into the negotating room tomoirrow with the copy of the offer Labour gave to the press and say

"So this is the correct copy you said right? What a pitty about the mix up on Monday. Now about this correct offer, there's a couple of things I'd like to add......."

 
At 12:42 am, Blogger gwe said...

Bemused Observer, what there is no going back on is the fact that Labour, as the largest party, had a moral obligation to try to form a stable government - for the people of Wales. It has become patently obvious that the Labour leadership had neither the integrity nor the courage to do this. As the largest opposition party, Plaid had the moral obligation of doing the same. It didn't shirk this responsibility, despite very apparent and vocal opposition from within.

If you honestly think that Labour will be able to make capital out of this in the long term, you are gravely mistaken.

Labour have one last chance to prove that they are worthy to govern this country of ours. And that's by hammering out some kind of deal with Plaid to ensure that the first period under the GoW Act is not a complete and utter shambles.

 
At 12:46 am, Blogger Geraint said...

Bemused Observer said...
I'm sure I'll get shot down by the Nats on here, but here goes, nevertheless...

Even if some in Labour are daft enough to touch the Nats with a barge-pole, many of us Labourites now have some very firm evidence that Plaid really are the bunch of daffodil Tories we have been telling people about for ages.

There's no going back on that now.

12:31 AM
-----------------------------------

I am proud to be one of the daft ones, that thinks that Labour and Plaid can co-operate and that, hopefully, we will see a Plaid-Labour coalition in the future, since both parties are Welsh Socialist parties, both parties want to do what is best for Wales and both parties believe in social progressive politics, fairness and equality.

 
At 12:53 am, Blogger Cwlcymro said...

Ha ha! Poor Times. After ignoring all this Welsh politics for three weeks, they FINALLY decide to print two stories regarding the rainbow and the would-be nationalist First Minister.

The reporter must be daming the fact that the paper's already gone to print!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1832304.ece

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1832307.ece

 
At 12:56 am, Blogger Luke Young said...

that'll teach the Times for ignoring us... : )

 
At 1:02 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have never been more glad that I left the LibDems last summer than I am tonight.

They are NOT a serious party. Their Exec is made up of the old and silly, the young and callow and the socially inept. What kind of decision did you seriously expect from this shower?!?

I am heartened that the AM vote was as decisive as can be in such a small group. Perhaps Mike should have been MUCH more heavy handed with Peter when he first started his whine on 4 May? Black's petulant child routine, crying until he gets his way, has been well known for the last twenty years at local government level and I am led to believe has been in full flow over the past eight years in Cardiff Bay. Mick Bates once told a friend of mine that Black had written his letter of resignation about six times in as many years over petty squabbles in the Group...perhaps they should have been accepted?!?

The shilly-shallying of the LibDems makes the Welsh polity look quite ridiculous. Stability, dignity, majesty - hardly three things one would associate with Welsh Government tonight. How can Wales be taken seriously when its own party political culture is so immature and seemingly based far too much on egos and personality battles?

The LibDems natural home is in propping up Labour - that is what they will undoubtedly end up doing at Westminster should there be a hung Parliament. That is what Mike wanted to do in Wales. But others, because of their ridiculous parochialism, made a huge racket (like a kid creating merry hell in a supermarket to get a bag of sweets) over the effect on a few Council seats. The irony for Peter is that the LibDem's decision effectively means a return to government for Wales without any single LibDem policy being taken onboard. Try that one on for size before next year's locals, Peter!

Just to let all those pissed off LibDems know - I've got plenty of Conservative Party Membership Pads!

 
At 1:04 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

See, told you so.

Rhodri will return as the Hero of the hour to save Wales from a bloodbath of factional infighting.

Ieuan has shown Plaid's true colours and will have a hard time convincing core voters that he didn't mean it.

Here's a tip Ieuan:

You gotta know when to hold 'em. You gotta know when to fold 'em. You showed all of your cards too soon. Ah well, better luck next time.

Job suggestion for Ieuan:
Minister for the Red Pens.

The Tories remain as that looming spectre that will pounce at any opportunity.

Job suggestion for Nick:
Minister for the Blue Pens.

The LibDems now appear to have no real purpose at all.

Job suggestion for Mike:
Minister for making us all a nice cup of tea. Naturally this position will be on a non-contractual and temporary basis. (You should count yourself lucky Mike).

Your prophetic pal.

johnny.

 
At 1:21 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh look the Labour crowing has already started - how predictable
so after all this Labour has power and has learnt nothing

I'm speaking as someone who worked for an independent candidate in the valleys i think i would like another election get rid of all the political parties and vote for the independents

 
At 2:03 am, Blogger Welsh Spin said...

Rene,

It amazes me that you took a decade to reach that conclusion, but hear, hear !!!

 
At 2:10 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This shows that the Plaid "Gang of Four" were right all along. A rainbow coalition would not have been stable.

 
At 2:17 am, Blogger Welsh Spin said...

Would have been fun tho ...

 
At 2:27 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fun, but not right. Anon 2:10 is right. The Plaid gang of women were spot on. Leanne Wood and Helen Mary are now my favourite AMs.

 
At 4:26 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
oh look the Labour crowing has already started - how predictable
so after all this Labour has power and has learnt nothing

I'm speaking as someone who worked for an independent candidate in the valleys i think i would like another election get rid of all the political parties and vote for the independents

1:21 AM


johnny says....

I do hope that you were not referring to me.

My voting paper was clearly marked: "None of These Turkeys".

I was merely stating facts. Rhodri will be First Minister and Ieuan won't.

With regard to Independents. I would love see the rise of some Independent candidates.

People of Honesty, Integrity, Principle, staightforwardness and strength.

Unfortunately, Welsh Politics appears, apart from a very few exceptions, to be populated by a bunch of jumped-up local councillors, party apparatchiks, and 'committee' people.

Trough-snouting parasites who couldn't hold down a real job.

Come to think of it, much the same could be said about English Politics too except that I think that they have a higher percentage of Lawyers.

Maybe we need a swift referendum to end the Assembly and save ourselves any further embarrassment.

Your pestiferous pal.

johnny.

 
At 8:50 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good on you Rene! Well said.

What happens if we have another election?

Perhaps we should start considering this possibility seriously. It would be super low turn out and how would people vote?

Would they vote for or against Labour??

Whatever they would have to vote differently than last time otherwise come another 2 months we will be in the same situation again.

As the Tories are the only ones sticking to their word surely they should be the deserved winners in round 2??

 
At 8:59 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rene, if the natural home of the Lib Dem's is propping up Labour, then why is it your Conservative's in Swansea which are fighting so hard to help Labour?

 
At 9:19 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
'Rene, if the natural home of the Lib Dem's is propping up Labour, then why is it your Conservative's in Swansea which are fighting so hard to help Labour? '

I hope they will succeed in getting the Lib/Dems out.

 
At 9:45 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Rene, if the natural home of the Lib Dem's is propping up Labour, then why is it your Conservative's in Swansea which are fighting so hard to help Labour?

Whoever you are, whether you are from Swansea or not, I think that you have swallowed a load of horse shit on this from the local Libs. The LibDems are making a hash of running Swansea and my Group, along with the other OPPOSITION groups took the decision to more effectively hold to account a failing Administration by sharing out the Scrutiny Board positions and PO/DPO of the Council. Hardly a Lab/Tory/PC coup against the Libs and more a putting into place what the Libs USED to think, i.e. the Opposition should Chair Scrutiny Boards (at least that's what the Libs thought when THEY were in Opposition....).

 
At 10:09 am, Blogger Pads said...

cachgwn!

 
At 10:21 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rene said: "Whoever you are, whether you are from Swansea or not, I think that you have swallowed a load of horse shit on this from the local Libs. The LibDems are making a hash of running Swansea and my Group, along with the other OPPOSITION groups took the decision to more effectively hold to account a failing Administration by sharing out the Scrutiny Board positions and PO/DPO of the Council. Hardly a Lab/Tory/PC coup against the Libs and more a putting into place what the Libs USED to think, i.e. the Opposition should Chair Scrutiny Boards (at least that's what the Libs thought when THEY were in Opposition....)."

I am from Swansea. The administration has made massive achievements in changing the Council after eighteen years of Labour failings. You have been a complete opportunist as ever Rene, as soon as things started to get difficult in the administration, as soon as the Lib Dems refused to select you as PAC after the lack of work you did as PPC, you jumped ship, and then you appear on Dragons Eye and start slagging off the adminsitration for the e-government project that you were just as responsible for when you were involved.

So if you are not trying a coup, does that mean you will say in writing now that you have no plans to no confidence the administration and put Labour back in power? Maybe the local Lib Dems have been lying to me and you have no plans to do so, if this is the case, please correct me.

 
At 10:34 am, Blogger Pads said...

/This shows that the Plaid "Gang of Four" were right all along./

Not entirely. They said it wasn't possible to work with the Tories due ideological differences, but it collapsed due to LibDem internal party squabbling.

 
At 10:51 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Swansea Lib Dems are just as useless as the previous Labour lot, with many now suggesting that they are worse.

How can you claim to be delivering after the millions wasted on IT and stock transfer? You are letting the Officers run the show because you are incapable of coping. Swansea is crying out for some Councillors with ability and vision, whatever their politics, apart from BNP of course.

 
At 11:21 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stock transfer was a Welsh Assembly Government policy. Labour had their Government in Cardiff saying 'you have to do this, there is no money' and the local lot saying 'don't do this, there is no money'.

Turns out, there is no more money. So there will be no investment in social housing in Swansea because Labour saw a chance to take a cheap shot at the administration.

 
At 12:55 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rene Kinzett said...
....Whoever you are, whether you are from Swansea or not, I think that you have swallowed a load of horse shit on this from the local Libs. The LibDems are making a hash of running Swansea and my Group, along with the other OPPOSITION groups took the decision to more effectively hold to account a failing Administration by sharing out the Scrutiny Board positions and PO/DPO of the Council. Hardly a Lab/Tory/PC coup against the Libs and more a putting into place what the Libs USED to think, i.e. the Opposition should Chair Scrutiny Boards (at least that's what the Libs thought when THEY were in Opposition....). ...


I agree with your every word. It has been a total shambles. We in Swansea are going to be paying for the mistakes for years to come. Now it looks like Wales will also be paying for Lib/Dem mess ups.

 
At 2:23 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous, having swallowed whole the local libdem tripe (are you a LibDem member, btw?) I don't know if you are now open to reason. But just open your eyes...have the LibDems been thrown out of office in Swansea? Did the Conservatives put down a vote of confidence in the Leader at the AGM? No! Only the electorate can change who runs Swansea...and judging by the LD's piss poor performance locally and nationally, I look forward to election day May 2008! Oh, and on the issue of "lack of work" as a parliamentary candidate, a 10% swing and 12% increase in the vote to 29% (bearing in mind the vote fell to 25% in the Assembly election) with no help from LibDem HQ was not a bad result.

 
At 3:33 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rene, perhaps the reason why the Lib Dem membership had such reservations about going into coalition with the Tories was that it meant working alongside people like you? If you hate the Lib Dems so much, how come you wished to stand for them at an Assembly and Parliamentary level? Your viewpoint seems clouded by a personal vendetta, if you don't mind me saying!

~ Anonymous #2

 
At 4:36 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reson why the 'no' vote on the Swansea stock transfer was so large, was because you made such a hash of the 'yes' campaign. You appear to want to offload any services you have to the public sector, because you cannot cope. By the time you are booted out, I wonder what will be left?

 

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