Let bygones be ballistic missiles
Monday, April 09, 2007
Plaid Cymru's (recent) excuses for failure in the 2003 Welsh assembly election:
1) The assembly's limited powers didn't excite voters
2) The Iraq war
I was at university in 2003, so it was all a bit of a Herbert Howells and Hobgoblin haze. But I do have a fuzzy recollection of over a million people taking to the streets in protest against the war and popular opinion being largely against the project from the outset. Plaid were and continue to be an anti-war party.
As for the assembly's limited powers, well, that surely impacted on all the political parties. And it didn't stop Labour promising free home care (within their powers but sill not deliverable!).
Someone is going to be a loser on May 4th 2007. I wonder if they have their excuses ready?
posted by Blamerbell @ 11:55 am,
- At 2:46 pm, said...
Quite right. Plaid's excuse, same as 2001 and 2003 and 2005 in three words, Ieuan Wyn Jones.
Plaid are effectively a anarcho-syndacalist party - it has no leader! IWJ can't be allowed on tv becasue he's crap, he can't lead because he has a charisma by-pass, he's an intellectual light-weight and the voters have no faith in him.
Plaid need to compare the change in the SNP's success in 2003 and now. The difference? The SNP were a proper political party and got rid of the useless Sweeny (MacIeuanWyn). Hey presto, a strong, articulate leader in Salmond changes the SNP's fortune and possibly the course of Scottish history.
Plaid stick with IWJ. Can any one quote anything IWJ has said in 5 years? The whole debate in the UK is on constitutional change and Plaid are no where to be seen.
The amazing thing is that IWJ will probably still 'lead' Plaid in 2011 - Wigley won't win his seat(bacause of Plaid's bonkers women on top of the list rule) and the depleted Plaid AM in the next Assembly will be so weak that there won't be a contestant.
Any sucecss Plaid gets wil be despite not because of IWJ. Wigley and Price do all the work but IWJ expects to be FM. How many seats must Plaid lose (or fail to win) before even IWJ's amazing self-delusion and ego tells him to stand down. More to the point, when will Plaid just present him with the pearl-handled revolver?
The man's a loser. Time for Plaid to grow up and act like a political party.
- At 3:46 pm, sanddef said...
An amusing rant, but Ieuan Wyn Jones is quite as capable of being First Minister as Morgan or Bourne, to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
Labour are the ones who will be eating humble pie on May 4th, and perhaps the Lib Dems, but both Plaid and Tories will have gained seats.
- At 4:17 pm, said...
Sanddef. Trouble is, Bourne and Morgan have other UK leaders with more carisma and subsance to back them up. Plaid is totally dependant on IWJ.
Nationalist to nationalist, don't you think that Plaid should be doing much better than hoping for 14 seat (I can't see more than that). Wales isn't Scotland, but with a stronger leader Plaid could really be challenging Labour.
it's a sign of Plaid's weakness and loss of confidence that 'gaining seats' (what 2 or 3?)-is a sign of voctory. You've swallowed the IWJ spin.
This is one election when Plaid should be a serious challenge to Labour but over 5 years IWJ has faliled to create a strong nationalist narrative. he's the boss and that's his failure.
it's left to more competent politicians, Price and Wigley, to carry him and then for hard-working activists on the ground to create a strong local campaign.
I seriously don't think IWJ has what it takes to be FM. He's done notheing over the last 5 year to suggest otherwise. Morgan isn't particularly good but he has carisma and the confidence of at least a large section of the Welsh community. IWJ isn't particularly bright, he has no guts and is not popular with the public. He'll get no honeymoon period.
The SNP are winning in Scotland because Salmond is seen as better than the labour boy. Were Salond as 'capable' as the Labour FM the SNP would be going nowhere.
I sincerely want Plaid to do well. But Plaid's 'leader' (can I call him that - do you see him as leader?) is a dead-weight on Plaid. Any gains Plaid will make will be despite IWJ not because of him.
- At 5:21 pm, sanddef said...
don't you think that Plaid should be doing much better than hoping for 14 seat
Well I'm hoping for more, especially since the Labour campaign is so crap.
As "Nationalist to Nationalist", I don't think this is neither the time or the place to question Plaid's leadership. And I certainly don't agree that Bourne and Morgan are more electacle by being merely Westminster side-kicks.
- At 5:33 pm, said...
I agree with anonymous. And as a Plaid voter and canvasser, I know how hard it is to get peopel to vote for a party with IWJ. It's not just his fault, it's the fault of those who let him stay in , and who suported him against better candidates in the 2nd election for leader, which he so unconvincingly won.
Plaid are a good party, with a crap leader. As Anon says, there is a dimension of politics where leaders' visibility ios crucial. All I would say is vote for the party not the personality - but then again, I would say that! Plaid's leader has none!
Any Plaid officials reading this - get this soerted for next time or I'm off, and I'm not the only one.
- At 5:39 pm, said...
There isn't a week that goes by without the London papers reporting something which Salmond said regarding Scotland's relationship with the rest of the UK. I have sometimes wondered if IWJ is still alive........and yes, this election Plaid should be a real threat to Labour. Time will tell.
- At 6:06 pm, Blamerbell said...
Blimey. You're not big fans are you!
I thought this was a post on excuses, not on leadership credentials. Still, anyone willing to step up and support him?
- At 6:24 pm, said...
well....it's often said that the good showing of the SNP is partly down to Salmond himself. We aren't really sure how well or badly Plaid are doing due to the lack of polls conducted here so it's a little premature to judge IWJ yet. And I would say that I would rather have IWJ at the helm ahead of any others any day.....
- At 7:10 pm, sanddef said...
Plaid are a good party, with a crap leader.
Much like all the other parties, then?
- At 7:14 pm, Blamerbell said...
"Plaid are a good party, with a crap leader.
Much like all the other parties, then?"
That's a bit of a frank admission for a Plaid supporter.
- At 7:52 pm, sanddef said...
That's a bit of a frank admission for a Plaid supporter.
I'm always frank, Blamy. That's why I don't hide my identity like the sockpuppets who plague the blogosphere. And don't forget, I'm a supporter, not a member.
I'm not knocking IWJ at all, he's a capable and honest politician. I just think criticizing him for being uncharesmatic is bollocks in the light that none of the other party leaders are particularly charesmatic either. He's the only leader who can't be accused of being "England's Bitch". If so-called "Plaid Supporters" have a problem with the leadership then they've had four years to do something about it. Plaid have -despite original misgivings on re-imaging- become more professional than their rivals, despite whatever the patently pro-Tory Arsembly has to say on the matter.
- At 8:11 pm, Blamerbell said...
"Plaid have -despite original misgivings on re-imaging- become more professional than their rivals,"
Of this there is no doubt. That's certainly the view within most of the meejia anyway.
"I just think criticizing him for being uncharesmatic is bollocks in the light that none of the other party leaders are particularly charesmatic either."
I think charisma is the least of RM's concerns.
NB is benefiting from the Cameron effect, so he's doing OK.
German? Well, I certainly wouldn't be hiding Lembit over the next couple of weeks.
- At 8:26 pm, said...
Well, I saw IWJ get the arse ripped off him on Question Time by Glenys Kinnock. The alarm bells shoudl have rung back then that this was a bloke who hadn;t the mettle for the political front line. Rhodri Morgan is fudging blagger who has wasted the chances devolution gave him. He's actually done less that Alun Michael woudl have done, and is himself well-spun to look unspun. I have no respect for him any more, as I did when he was my MP, but you have to admit people know who he is. He's lucky the others are so crap they makwe him look liek a statesman. As for IWJ, he was part of the cohort that pushed out Dafydd Wigley, Plaid's best asset and one of the great political figures in Wales. For what? For this...
I too would rather have him at the helm that any of the others, but there has to be a helm to be at in the first place, and he ain;t there.
- At 8:45 pm, sanddef said...
Dafydd Wigley, Plaid's best asset and one of the great political figures in Wales.
Definately. I hope he makes it back to Cardiff Bay.
- At 8:49 pm, Blamerbell said...
"Definately. I hope he makes it back to Cardiff Bay."
Fat chance! Unless IWJ loses Ynys Mon. Then it would all be terribly interesting...
- At 9:43 pm, said...
Sanddef - I don't think Wigley will make it to Cardiff Bay because of Plaid's mad women on top list system. Who's the leader who could have used his authority to say, 'hey look do we really want to lose the chance of Wigley winng a seat?' - IWJ. He didn't make a stand because a) he doesn't want Wigley in (despite using him to get votes) or b) he wasn't strong enough to stand up the the handful of feminists in Plaid or c) he actually believes in the policy.
It's proably a combination of all three. What ever it is it shows that he has no authority nor leadership ability.
Sanddef - don't come out with this 'carisma isn't important' thing. The public don't care much for manifestos; they take a hunch on the 'cultural' mood-music of the party and then the capability of the leader. The public are brighter than the politicians - they know manifestos are things written by policy wonks, what they want is a leader they reckon they can trust in an unlikely situation - someone who can handle 'events'. IWJ gives no confidence that he can hadle events. Mouthing policies is easy, any idiot can do that, but reacting to unscripted things is the mark of a leader - IWJ messed up big time with Glenys Kinnock and he still hasn't got over it. Nobody trusts a word he says.
What's worse is that he's biggy-backing on Wigley and Price's good names but still expects to be chosen as FM if Plaid were to be in that situation.
Plaid's campaign team have rightly decided to keep him off the news Headings like 'Ieuan - I want to be FM' in the WM would be suicide. IWJ knows he's crap, the public know he's crap, Plaid know he's crap. He's like the 'special' child in the class you can't be nasty to 'cos it's not fair.
The whole future of the UK is being debated, Salmond is on London media every second day, you'd think with some interesting quotes and a coherent and brave leader Plaid would get some coverage but no. This is Plaid's agenda but Plaid and Wales are invisible.
The man's conceit is incredible.
- At 9:51 pm, sanddef said...
Sanddef - don't come out with this 'carisma isn't important' thing.
Oh but I will! To quote myself:
I just think criticizing him for being uncharesmatic is bollocks in the light that none of the other party leaders are particularly charesmatic either.
Your dislike of IWJ is starting to sound like a personal obsession, by the way.
- At 4:02 pm, said...
... Sanddef - nothing personal against IWJ - it's politics. I want him and Plaid to do well. But IWJ and Plaid need to be honest too.
Plaid could be the biggest party after May 3rd if IWJ had lead a more ambitious, brave and interesting leadership. That they are not is very much down to him. The buck has to stop somewhere. On May 4th, whatever the outcome, Plaid need to take a hard and honest assesment of their campaign and future and that could mean taking some touch decisions.