Everyone's a winner on the Tory front bench
Monday, June 04, 2007
The Conservatives have announced their new shadow ministerial team.
Alun Cairns makes the Education portfolio a Bridgend affair. He is also just about the only assembly member who could literally squeeze into Carwyn Jones' shadow.
All the baggage that goes with that brief has been dished out to Paul Davies, who takes Welsh language, Culture and Sport. Expect this chap to be wheeled out as the Tories' token Mr Welsh over the next four years.
Elsewhere, Brynle Williams gets 'Farming', which is a bit like giving Darren Millar 'Christianity' (unfortunately he gets Environment instead) and Jonathan Morgan sticks with Health.
You can see the full list HERE.
Labels: National Assembly for Wales, politics, Shadow team, Welsh Conservatives
posted by Blamerbell @ 11:45 am,
51 Comments:
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At 12:47 pm,
said...
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Does Mr Millar think that Wales' environment was created in 6 days and will his policy position reflect this?
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At 12:49 pm,
said...
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It is really refreshing to see Darren Millar with a real job in the shadow ministerial team. One of the best things about the rainbow coalition is that for the first time Wales could be governed by a team with, at least in part, a Christian agenda.
For the first time in 50 years people of faith are gaining ground in the politics of Wales. Darren Millar and Mohammad Asghar both represent a change in perspective and an acknowledgment from the leadership of both Plaid and the Tories that the leftist atheist agenda is not the only way forward.
One hopes if there is to be a rainbow coalition one of these two excellent politicians gets a seat round the table and a significant job. -
At 12:55 pm,
said...
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There are several long-serving AMs with relgion, including some part time preachers no less. New blood should be welcomed into the Assembly, but hopefully not under a banner that in some way justifies homophobia.
Mr. Millar was probably set up during the campaign by Labour, but he does need to take the first opportunity to prove his Cameron tendancies. -
At 1:19 pm,
said...
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I am surprised that anyone of faith has ever sat in the Assembly. As an outsider it seems that the Assembly has an in built bias away from faith based issues.
I would however question your assertion that to hold views on sexuality - and to want to develop those in a political context that is not extremely liberal - makes you a homophobic person. The Bible and Koran are clear on such issues. The family needs to be the bedrock of a successful society. This does not mean that we hate homosexual persons but that society should not pander to their needs. -
At 1:23 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"It is really refreshing to see Darren Millar with a real job in the shadow ministerial team. One of the best things about the rainbow coalition is that for the first time Wales could be governed by a team with, at least in part, a Christian agenda."
To me this is wholly worrying, religion should be wholly seperate from the state. Mr Millar's view are abhorrent and will cloud his ability to make decisions in any aspect of his political life. I hope he was elected on a 'tory' agenda, not a 'christian' one. In all fairness to Mohammed Ashkgar, he was clear that his election was for all ethnic minorities, and not just his fellow muslims.
"Mr. Millar was probably set up during the campaign by Labour, but he does need to take the first opportunity to prove his Cameron tendancies".
This may have some element of truth in it, but anyone person who is involved so strongly as Mr. Millar will not deviate from those views that were so wrong. Homosexuality is a sin according to the religion of Mr. Millar- it is that clear cut.
Thank god for Richard Dawkins... -
At 1:29 pm,
Marcusian said...
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What is funny, is that if Borne had to pick his team of 7 like Rhodri, would he essentially just be installing his own 'glamorgan' candidates...
Brynle is crap...he wouldnt be in.
Ramsay, Davies, Morgan, Meldling...all m4 corridor.
Paul Davies- token 'welshy'.
So really the tories are hardly blazing a trail with regards a 'government of all wales' are they? -
At 1:56 pm,
said...
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Thank god for Richard Dawkins...
Thank who? -
At 2:02 pm,
said...
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As a straight bloke who was very active in the church (CinW) but who left because of its lack of relevance to my life, I find their position on homosexuality contrary to what I believed they stood for.
I have friends who are both gay and committed Christians and am disgusted that an organisation cliaming to want to represent all, shuns a large chunk of the Welsh population because of a sentence in a book written 2000 years ago. I recognise that the bible the basis for Chrisianisty as a world religion, but it also must be recognised that humanity and its understanding of itself has changed interpretations of the bible over the centuries.
Being gay is not a lifestyle choice as many bigots in the church hiding behind their religion claim, but a sexuality people are born with. Why then should they be treated any differently?
The church was always as good at persecution, as it was campaigning aginst it. -
At 2:03 pm,
The views of a Welsh man said...
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This comment has been removed by the author.
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At 2:17 pm,
said...
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Marcusian said...
" So really the tories are hardly blazing a trail with regards a 'government of all wales' are they? "
Neither is New Labour. It's all talk and the actions speak differently. I refer to Carwyn's interview on the radio last week,it was disappointing to anyone thinking Labour could work with Plaid.
Wales has a big percentage of workers on a low income, many live alone and they are currently going to be savaged by Brown's last budget, a Labour budget. Also women with small occupational pensions who have just retired at 60, their pension is going to be hiked back to pay into welfare benefits. It's taking from the poor to pay the poor. These people will be living below poverty level and never expected or planned for it.
Don't attack the Tories, Marcus, your party is doing far worse than they did to the working class. They are managing to do it because they throw spin and lies to Joe public and their supporters while doing exactly as they want with your money.
See this petition:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Savethe10pcband/
and sign it if you have a real socialist conscience. -
At 2:20 pm,
said...
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What's wrong with Paul Davies?
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At 2:25 pm,
said...
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der said...
"What's wrong with Paul Davies? "
Nothing. Just the valley nulab mouths repeating the dross and filth they have heard in labour headquarters. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones and all that.... -
At 2:36 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"Thank god for Richard Dawkins...
Thank who?"
Irony matey...www.dictionary.com for a definition.
TWM...
"See this petition:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Savethe10pcband/
and sign it if you have a real socialist conscience."
Although i can see the petitions worth in essence i wont sign it because i dont see the real effect of such petitions. Why dont you write to your elected representatives rather than some useless petition?
So how does signing a petition of little consequence help those affected? I spend every wednesday writing to ministers on behalf of constituents who are moved enough to write a letter to their MP to raise an issue. This is far more effective than some loaded petition noone cares about...
Also i await your definition of 'socialism' or being a socialist? My socialism is value driven not dogmatic policy driven...I advise some Tony Crosland for you.
Tell me what definition of socialism you attribute to your beliefs then? -
At 2:40 pm,
Marcusian said...
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TWM,
My point regarding the tory cabinet was that Nick Borne had a go at rhodri morgan for having a 'glamorgan' cabinet when essentially he is doing the same...
"Neither is New Labour. It's all talk and the actions speak differently. I refer to Carwyn's interview on the radio last week,it was disappointing to anyone thinking Labour could work with Plaid."
So unless Welsh Labour renege on their manifesto and give Plaid exactly what they want on the language (not a massive issue for many i can assure you) they are in the wrong? You make no mention of Plaid meeting Labour in the middle.
Carwyn's constituents voted him on a manifesto that doesnt commit to a new welsh language act -
At 2:41 pm,
The views of a Welsh man said...
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I agree abour Paul Davies he will eb wheeled out for every Welsh event praising the language.
Darren Miller will def put his foot in it so many times Wales will think they have got foot and mouth disease again.
Nick Bourne only has four talents in his team.
It be interesting to see what Plaid do.
I think my predictions on my blog were spot on -
At 2:44 pm,
said...
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Wales has a lot of older people on low incomes.
Hmmmmm what should we do…...
Radical Plaid ( Tory in disguise) manifesto priority ideas
Energy saving plan
Nearly double childcare funding
Computer laptops for 11-year-olds
Help ex-students pay their student loans
Grants for first buyers
Tax cuts for business
New "community health service"
GENIOUS - Give money to middleclass 20 something’s.
It is amazing that they didn’t go the whole hog and throw in 50% Jamie Oliver cookbooks and a free trip on the Eurostar
Plaid are just like the Tories but with better freebees -
At 2:57 pm,
Marcusian said...
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With regards how politics is being warped by religion- read this
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Politics-Right-Wrong-Doesnt/dp/0060558288
It is an excellent book from a christian. -
At 3:03 pm,
said...
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I spend every wednesday writing to ministers on behalf of constituents who are moved enough to write a letter to their MP to raise an issue. This is far more effective than some loaded petition noone cares about...
so that's Labour constituents rasieing issues with Labour AM's and MP's with a Labour government in London and things get done - well i never.
The reason you don't like petitions is because they raise issue that you refuse to talk about or acknowledge
Having a go at the working poor - i thought Labour was the party of the working man, they should be throughly ashamed of itself -
At 3:06 pm,
said...
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The electorate has had enough of Labour spin now. It's true, sections of society have benefited. But it is just sections, and much of the money was and still is wasted. Look how many small busnesses are going bust after taking thousands from the assembly.
As for the pensioners, you are referring to those over 70 who are better off than ever. In the meantime those under that age should be shown compassion and need our help to ensure the chancellor does not tax them out of existence. Ask Age Concern or the Pension Agency, they will clarify the problem for you. Some already are having difficulties paying council tax, mortgages out of the pension left by Brown. You see, I'm not talking about those living off the Welfare state.
Now we are hearing that Brown is going to contunue oj the same New Labour path as before. He was only 'listening' to the electorate when he wanted support to be leader. So that's it, we will have another right wing government again. -
At 3:19 pm,
said...
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Marcusian said...
"Although i can see the petitions worth in essence i wont sign it because i dont see the real effect of such petitions. Why dont you write to your elected representatives rather than some useless petition?"
Did you read what the petition is all about? Our elected representatives know all about it but New Labour is a Law unto itself. This is Brown's cold heart side.
Whether you believe in petitions or not, this is one way the electorate can show their disgust and horror at the way Gordon Brown is treating the lower paid.
New Labour does not want working class support, it has given up on the new pensioners of whom many have lost all their dreams for a secure future due to Brown.
It wants the votes of the very old as they are reliable and it saves them some social conscience. So it piles them with goodies even when they don't need it. It also wants the votes of the rich or they will remove their money from the country. So it will not tax them too much. But it will tax your granny who has just retired, so much she will be finding life very tough to manage until she reaches 65.
This is reality Marcus. You cannot support the fantasy Labour of your history while people are struggling around you because of the big Spin coming from the leaders. -
At 3:25 pm,
said...
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Marcusian said:
//I advise some Tony Crosland for you. //
That was nearly 40 years ago! So much has changed since . The Labour party now is unrecognisble from Labour then.
I have read Tony Crossland, met him and admired him. There were other great thinkers then too. But they were theorists, academics. Like Tony Benn, another great living socialist thinker. Sadly it's another matter in putting those theories into practice. It transferred down the line and by default became New Labour. -
At 3:28 pm,
said...
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all for free speech said...
*The reason you don't like petitions is because they raise issue that you refuse to talk about or acknowledge *
Spot on!
New Labour does not like facing the bare truth. -
At 3:28 pm,
said...
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all for free speech said...
*The reason you don't like petitions is because they raise issue that you refuse to talk about or acknowledge *
Spot on!
New Labour does not like facing the bare truth. -
At 3:48 pm,
said...
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Marcus said:
"Thank god for Richard Dawkins...
Thank who?"
Irony matey...www.dictionary.com for a definition."
No that was humour!
Tony Crossland? next you'll be telling me that you are going to join the SDP -
At 3:48 pm,
Marcusian said...
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Twm,
My point on Crosland still stands- where is your definition of socialism? You indicate that to be a socialist you MUST support the petition. Crosland puts pay to the belief that to be a 'socialist' you must blindly subscribe to certain policies. How much equality do i want? More than we have now. Crosland is still very relevant...
"*The reason you don't like petitions is because they raise issue that you refuse to talk about or acknowledge"
It bothers me not one iota, i think that you need effective ways of raising issues, not clicking a mouse to make me feel better.
"This is reality Marcus. You cannot support the fantasy Labour of your history while people are struggling around you because of the big Spin coming from the leaders."
History? I am 24, bit early to have a history. I know you are trying to dig out my own families tradition as being socialists (ho hum) but the fact is that we live in a very different world right now. I am very pragmatic and revisionist, we must adopt socialist values for present problems, not hark back to any other period...
I have never deviated from the beliefs that i sit to the left of new Labour, but i am a realist. New Labour is a labour government in a conservative country, England is a conservative country. Simple as. The reality of government means that it is not always possible to forge ahead with this great progressive force you really believe can occur...You offer a critique of something, which is far easier than offering a solution AND delivering on it. New Labour has still moved the centre to the left...perhaps that is all what it can ever achieve in England.
I am far more turned on by assembly politics because i truly believe there is a centre left consensus emerging on issues like social justice...
"New Labour does not want working class support, it has given up on the new pensioners of whom many have lost all their dreams for a secure future due to Brown."
Lets deal in fact, not the spin you apparently hate. Gordon Brown's decision on pensions wasnt simply not the root cause of the pensions problem. Global market forces were, his decision had very little impact on the pensions 'crisis'. -
At 4:02 pm,
said...
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"Bridgend, Brigend"
"Education, Education"
Hevey weight vs Light weight. -
At 4:02 pm,
said...
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Labourmark – ok that is an interesting position to hold. If someone had a sexuality directed at goats or their siblings or dead people I presume the labour party would have a position it. What you mean is normal sexuality and in this definition you include the sexuality expressed by gay people.
To continue to direct social policy agenda at gay people and others who make similar lifestyle choices is very dangerous. This is what will happen if Labour stay in power.
Most Christians in Wales would welcome Darren Millar in the cabinet not because he is a Christian or anti gay but because he is pro family. I believe this is a position held by most members of Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Conservatives. This is why the Rainbow Coalition is so appealing and will be so popular with normal Welsh people. -
At 4:10 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"Most Christians in Wales would welcome Darren Millar in the cabinet not because he is a Christian or anti gay but because he is pro family. I believe this is a position held by most members of Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Conservatives."
I am pro-family but not religious, do you have to be religious to see the benefit of a stable family upbringing? Am i not pro-family because i grew up in a single parent family with an absent father?
It is naive to the reality to assume we will have a society that is purely involving lovely two-point four children families. Why bother trying to fight against the reality? -
At 4:11 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"To continue to direct social policy agenda at gay people and others who make similar lifestyle choices is very dangerous. This is what will happen if Labour stay in power."
I think this 'agenda' is actually about giving freedoms to people who live their lives without discrimination. -
At 4:23 pm,
The views of a Welsh man said...
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Totally agree with you there marcusian.
Everyone should be treated equal, no one section of the society should have preferantial treatment over another, what the Labour government is doing, is giving rights to people to put them on the same level as others.
Yes a family is a good thing, but its not the end all of everything. -
At 4:56 pm,
said...
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What you are both describing is very subtle discrimination. I am not saying discriminate against gay people –like all Christians will leave it to the lord to judge us all. What I am saying is that Welsh Labour direct resources towards promoting a gay feminist agenda. It is great for Wales that this stranglehold is now for once broken.
Obviously there are different lifestyles and families however policy should be directed at supporting families to nurture children and look after older relatives. Wales labour is trying to make our young people more promiscuous, our families more unstable, our communities more violent and our old people more isolated. They don’t do this out of sense of malice but because they have no moral direction. -
At 5:15 pm,
said...
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Marcusian said:
" You indicate that to be a socialist you MUST support the petition. "
That is called twisting things to play dirty. I NEVER said you had to support the petition to be a socialist. Then if the contents of the petition embarrassed you to the point of lying then let everyone see how New labour plays dirty. BTW, a socialist is not New Labour. Most young socialists were voting Respect in the last election. -
At 5:29 pm,
Geraint said...
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Society should treat everyone as equal no matter what faith, race, gender or sexuality they are, and it is not the place of the church of any faith to try and dictate otherwise to politicans. It is not the job of any church to tell politicans to stop abortions or homosexual rights or anything else along those lines.
Single parent families and homosexual families can be just as effective as two-parent familes. Its the 21st century, attitudes have changed, and the family itself have changed, and that in my opinion can only be a good thing. -
At 5:31 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"Most young socialists were voting Respect in the last election."
what evidence is that ludicrous claim based on? There cant be many young socialists then.
You said that i should sign the petition to rescue my socialist conscience...They are your words. Tell me what party did you vote in the last election?
Socialist have always existed in the Labour Party, Tony Benn is still a member.
I must admit the term socialist has never sat comfortably because it is so very hard to define. My acceptance of capitalism, albeit with reform makes me an social democrat, a democratic socialist.
Again you are trying to pin to a label that you cannot define yourself... -
At 5:32 pm,
Geraint said...
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Twm said...
Marcusian said:
" You indicate that to be a socialist you MUST support the petition. "
That is called twisting things to play dirty. I NEVER said you had to support the petition to be a socialist. Then if the contents of the petition embarrassed you to the point of lying then let everyone see how New labour plays dirty. BTW, a socialist is not New Labour. Most young socialists were voting Respect in the last election.
-----------------------------------
Urmm, I am sorry, but you did imply that, you said "....sign it if you have a real socialist conscience." It is up there for all to see, and I think what you were implying was clear for all to see and read. -
At 5:39 pm,
said...
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GeraintRennie said...
// Its the 21st century, attitudes have changed, and the family itself have changed, and that in my opinion can only be a good thing. //
The welfare state does not seem to agree with you. Some families nowadays do not take responsibility. They have no moral values, no backbone, and there is little in our popular culture to help guide them from what is wrong or right.
New Labour tried to close old people's homes so families would look after their own , but it's failing miserably. There are children on the streets, poorly cared for because there is no one around to give them the attention they deserve. And mental health issues are increasing when there are no families to go to in time of crisis. Everyone, is too busy looking after themselves these days. That can't be good for families. -
At 5:47 pm,
said...
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Marcusian said:
*It bothers me not one iota, i think that you need effective ways of raising issues, not clicking a mouse to make me feel better.*
Like it or not, blogging and using the internet is an very effective way of raising political issues.
I think you must be alluding to labour spin doctors? Nah. Spinnogram went out with Blair. No more need for a middle man to make up our minds. -
At 6:01 pm,
said...
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'It bothers me not one iota, i think that you need effective ways of raising issues, not clicking a mouse to make me feel better.'
If this is so, then why put the issue in the comments of one of the best read welsh blog.
secondly if you work for an elected representative how come you have time during the day to read the blogs and add personal comments, not the even the Labour party line to the welsh blogs, is this part of your job? -
At 6:06 pm,
said...
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Just how many Tories does it take to 'mark' a Welsh Labour minister?
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At 7:12 pm,
said...
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Listening to the sectarian socialist rhetoric of some on Plaid's left for example........ I think yep that's more a substitute religion than anything to do with practical politics.
This petition....I know a lot of poor workers who are going to be really hurt by the scrapping of the 10pc tax band.... I hope this petition has nothing to do with the vile Socialist Workers Party though, they'll hijack any good cause for their own purposes.
Respect...another SWP front organisation has stepped well over the mark into fascism....a fascist party in my opinion. -
At 7:38 pm,
said...
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It is really funny to think that anyone in Plaid can claim to be a socialist or a democratic socialist.
Plaid will be a reactionary nationalist party who want to protect the economic interest of those people they consider to be Welsh. If they every get into power – with or without the Conservative Party -the rest of us might as well pack up, switch the lights off and migrate to Brittany -
At 8:11 pm,
said...
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anonymous said:
"This petition....I know a lot of poor workers who are going to be really hurt by the scrapping of the 10pc tax band.... I hope this petition has nothing to do with the vile Socialist Workers Party though, they'll hijack any good cause for their own purposes."
I did a search and found no connection. It is so easy to set up these petitions, they do not have to have an organisation behind them. I share your concerns about the extreme groups. It would be a pity if people did not show support because they thought it was run by a left group. Well, I signed it and I'm Plaid. My concerns are for the people who are going to be affected by this very unfair tax on some of the poorest. -
At 10:16 pm,
Ian said...
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"It is really funny to think that anyone in Plaid can claim to be a socialist or a democratic socialist."
"Plaid will be a reactionary nationalist party who want to protect the economic interest of those people they consider to be Welsh. If they every get into power – with or without the Conservative Party -the rest of us might as well pack up, switch the lights off and migrate to Brittany"
As a Plaid member and
de-centralist socialist, I fully admit to be working for the interests of those I consider Welsh-which happens to be all 3 million of us, including you 'anonymous'.
Yes, I even want to work for the twp one's like you and by the way if you choose to move to Britanny, I recommend somewhere in the vicinity of Locronan-a cracking spot. -
At 11:23 pm,
said...
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ian said:
"if you choose to move to Britanny, I recommend somewhere in the vicinity of Locronan-a cracking spot. "
Before he goes let's remind him to brush up on his Welsh as they speak a very similar language there. The oldest language in Europe. -
At 1:33 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"secondly if you work for an elected representative how come you have time during the day to read the blogs and add personal comments, not the even the Labour party line to the welsh blogs, is this part of your job?"
I work PART TIME, meaning i have days where in MY OWN time i can post on blogs as and when i want to...And even on my days in work i come in an hour early to post on my blog as i dont have the net at home...I bet your a SPad working for another party.
I cant win, i have you saying that i speaking AGAINST the party line (whatever that is?) and TWM saying i am sticking to it too much...I have my own mind, i will speak it. -
At 1:34 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"Urmm, I am sorry, but you did imply that, you said "....sign it if you have a real socialist conscience." It is up there for all to see, and I think what you were implying was clear for all to see and read"
Thanks geraint...i was hoping TWM would have grasped this for him or herself... -
At 1:48 pm,
said...
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marcusian on my lunch break and thought i would reply
no idea what a SPAD is, im a voter and taxpayer in your part of the world, wondering what's happening to my hard earned money - no offence meant just curious as to how things work in Cardiff Bay. -
At 2:02 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"marcusian on my lunch break and thought i would reply
no idea what a SPAD is, im a voter and taxpayer in your part of the world, wondering what's happening to my hard earned money - no offence meant just curious as to how things work in Cardiff Bay."
I dont work in Cardiff Bay, you really should think before you throw mud. I am a voter who pay taxes on two jobs also... -
At 2:37 pm,
said...
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Marcusian said:
"I cant win, i have you saying that i speaking AGAINST the party line (whatever that is?) and TWM saying i am sticking to it too much...I have my own mind, i will speak it. "
And so you must. You make my day Marcusian :-)
Good to see old fashioned passionate political fervour. Even if I don't agree with it. -
At 3:00 pm,
said...
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you really should think before you throw mud.
i respect your Labour views marcusian and am pleased you reply to my comments, but you don't seem to respect a legitimate question from a constituent maybe this sort of attitude is one of the reasons that people don't engage with the political process and less so with labour party. -
At 3:06 pm,
Marcusian said...
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"i respect your Labour views marcusian and am pleased you reply to my comments, but you don't seem to respect a legitimate question from a constituent maybe this sort of attitude is one of the reasons that people don't engage with the political process and less so with labour party"
I answered your question clearly. You implied something with your question and made the wrongful assumption regarding where i work, i was merely highlighting that fact.
And no, i dont think my posts on these comments highlight anything regarding elected representatives and the public, although i accept it is a massive issue. I suppose you would have to take it up with an actual elected representative...
