Wee bits and bobs

I'll be taking part in a live debate over on BBC Radio Scotland this evening (10pm) about the future of devolution.

The new Scottish government, led by Alex Salmond, isn't too pleased that Tony Blair apparently struck a deal which could lead to the Lockerbie bomber being sent back to Libya to complete his prison sentence without informing it.

Meanwhile, the Secretary of State and the First Minister in Wales are on such good terms that Rhodri Morgan is backing Harriet Harman for the Deputy Leadership of the Labour party.

You can listen to the programme, Scotland at Ten, online this evening.

I am also booked to pop up again on tomorrow's AM/PM on BBC 2 Wales - better than Big Brother every time:)

In other news, Plaid's Ieuan Wyn Jones has torn up Labour's olive branch, ground it into sawdust, shoved it in his mouth and sprayed it all over Rhodri Morgan's surprised face shouting "Boo hoo to you, Sir!"

He still fancies forming his own government, you see.

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posted by Blamerbell @ 7:25 pm,

31 Comments:

At 9:12 pm, Blogger Christopher Glamorgan said...

There was me thinking that Rhoders is distancing himself from Peter in order to cosy up to Ieuan Wyn.

Do you see what I've done Ieuan? Is that enough humbling for you? I did say that I've changed?

Hmm!

 
At 8:50 am, Blogger LabourMark said...

Well IWJ is either stupid or he is very clever. He had a chance of having an influence with policy with Rhodri and now he has snubbed that. Maybe he still wants it for him slef, and if he does; watch the backlash in his own party. Plaid will loose credability and loose seats back to Labour especially in the west and in the vallies.

 
At 9:52 am, Blogger ianjamesjohnson said...

Plaid will loose credability and loose seats back to Labour especially in the west and in the vallies.

Anywhere you're thinking of specifically here?

 
At 10:17 am, Blogger LabourMark said...

Llanelli, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, and the council seats in Carmarthenshire, Swansea, Bridgend, Rhondda, Caerphilly, and I also belive the Labour voters who voted plaid in Carmarthen West and Preseli Pembs would come back to Labour and make thos eLbaour gains again.

 
At 10:39 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why should IWJ suck up to Labour after still being offered no more than a few delayed policies and promises. Rhodri has had months to plan a deal for Plaid to find attractive, and then several weeks to do that deal.

I would personally like Plaid's National Council to be offered the two options, Labour or Rainbow. Yet, there is little point doing this unless Labour can offer something far more substantial. They offered the Lib Dems far more in 2000 and they only had 6 AMs and were not the main opposition.

My main concern is that Plaid's NEC will attempt to block either one or both options going forward to the National Council on 7th July. It must be the party membership that decides as they hold the constitutional powers and not the NEC.

 
At 10:47 am, Blogger LabourMark said...

Why? because IWJ should understand agaion people in Wales do not want the tories back in in what ever shape or form, wither in a formal coalition or and agreement.

 
At 11:43 am, Blogger ianjamesjohnson said...

But that's nonsense, Mark. The Conservatives only got 10% less of the popular vote than Labour. You're just buying into some populist line designed to scare Plaid.

I'm also not sure I agree with your list of seats for Plaid to lose either next time round or in the council elections next year. They might be a better litmus test, but a Rainbow Government would be judged on what it achieved, not Labour bullying and threats, which is what seems to stand as 'politics' these days.

 
At 11:44 am, Blogger ianjamesjohnson said...

By the way, if you think our coalition forming is complicated, try the results of the Belgian elections on Sunday. 11 parties in the parliament and no coalition can be formed with fewer than 4 components!

 
At 11:48 am, Anonymous der said...

"people in Wales do not want the tories back in in what ever shape or form,"

LOL! They've been on power at Westminster level under a different name I admitt for the last 10 years. That hasn't meant 'the people of Wales' turning their backs on them. You are only concerned with labels.

 
At 11:55 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Surely it's about policies and not history?

I have heard this argument from Labour supporters for months, yet these are the very same people who have slavishly supported a New Labour Government that has carried the Tory political agenda to extremes.

Look at the rainbow coalition document and tell me what right wing policies there are? More to the point, compare it with what Labour in Wales have done in the last 8 years, hide the repsective titles and get an objective observer to guess which document comes from a more progessive political agenda?

Plaid are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They will be slated as Labour's little helpers if they sign up to the present feeble offerings from Rhodri and get stuffed by the Tories in 2011 (much to the pleasure of both the Tories and Labour who much prefer the two party scrap). Then, if they go in with the Tories, they get slagged off by Labour and would undoubdedly lose some support.

So if they are bxggered either way, why not go for the 3 party option and at least Wales gets something out of it? The rainbow coalition is a one-off opportunity, as its policy agenda is based largely on issues that are not driven by idealogical left/right politics. They are effectively the missing manifesto; the set of policies that would and should have been enacted by a pro-Wales progessive party. They are the result of 8 years of Labour timidity and if they are brought in under this coalition, then I doubt that Plaid and the Tories would ever find another situation when they could form a further coalition-at least for a generation.

The only way that this 3 party team can now be stopped is by Labour offering a genuine and cast iron policy agenda to Plaid that at least comes close to what the alternative has already agreed.

Of course, what Labour are really scared about is the prospect of this new coalition actually delivering, holding together and transforming the perception of devolution.

 
At 12:05 pm, Blogger LabourMark said...

Ian

First- its not bullying tactics. Its educating the people of Wales what and could happen within an election or after.

Second - I agree we better off tahn the Belgians, who will have to wait for over a month for an government and then its coould fall apart with 4 sections.

Third (this is to der) - are you saying the minimum wage, winter fuel allowance, devlolution, economic stabilaty, record funding for school and education is right wing are you. Well what planet are you on.

 
At 12:25 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

well done IWJ.

Why play patsy to a tired Labour 'government'.

 
At 12:27 pm, Anonymous der said...

"Third (this is to der) - are you saying the minimum wage, winter fuel allowance, devlolution, economic stabilaty, record funding for school and education is right wing are you. Well what planet are you on. "

Minimum wage - How many people can live on the minimum wage. You certainly won't be able to buy a house. Anwyay, the gap between rich and poor is wider now than at any other time.

devolution - the people voted for it

economic stability - don't know what you mean....I suppose you mean low interest rates. These are due to factors well beyond the UK. It's a global phenomenom due to cheap good for China and India.

record funding - it's called inflation.

The gap between rich and poor is wider than during the time the Tories were in power. Then we have the Iraq war in support of a right wing American government....Trident.....need I go on?

 
At 12:48 pm, Blogger LabourMark said...

Yes at least the Labour Government started to give the lowest earners in this country help with the Minimum wage. Yes I would like to see it hight yes I would like to see more done to close the gap. It is done one stpe at a time, at least its being done.

Not like the Plaid MP's who voted against a minimum wage.

I personnally don't like the closeness we have with George Bush, but a close relationship with America is good. Trident on the other hand we dont know whats around the corner, we dont't want be caught with our pants down now do we.

 
At 1:11 pm, Anonymous der said...

"Not like the Plaid MP's who voted against a minimum wage."

Didn't they vote against because they felt it was too low? I am not a Plaid member....I am asking. Unlike you and your type who blindly follow the Labour label, I will not give blind allegiance to ANY party. It's called 'thinking'.

 
At 1:16 pm, Blogger Clear Red Water said...

"Didn't they vote against because they felt it was too low? I am not a Plaid member....I am asking. Unlike you and your type who blindly follow the Labour label, I will not give blind allegiance to ANY party. It's called 'thinking'."

Thinking can exist within political parties too though dont you agree? You need broad churches to come to a common consensus with regards offering a manifesto to enter a democratic elections. You make a silly brash assumption that shows your blind statement. Are you suggesting that if you share a parties view you are discounted as having a credible opinion?

 
At 1:23 pm, Blogger LabourMark said...

As I stated it is a start isn't it. I personally didn't agree with the iraq war, tution fees, top up fees and many others. Sorry I do have a brian and I can think for myself.

 
At 1:31 pm, Anonymous der said...

"Sorry I do have a brian and I can think for myself. "

LOL! Look at the name you have chosen for yourself. Says it all.

 
At 1:34 pm, Blogger LabourMark said...

Yes I am a member of the Party. Sorry the name is not original, sorry its not good enough for you, or sorry do I care, not!

If you have a problem with my name get over it will you.

 
At 1:51 pm, Anonymous der said...

"If you have a problem with my name get over it will you. "

Personally, I would prefer not to be labelled let alone label myself. You admitt that you don't agree with all that Labour do.....thank God for that yet you still use the party's name as part of your username. What kind of person want to be linked with the slaughter in Iraq for beginners? I don't quite understand that. Do you draw a salary from them?

 
At 2:01 pm, Blogger LabourMark said...

Nope i do not draw a slary from the Party. I am an ordinary party member, who works hard to earn a decent wage.

Again you label everyone in the party, as supporters of the Iraq war, sorry that is not true.

Its like saying all of Plaid's members would like to kick all the english out and have wales to the welsh speakers only.

 
At 2:09 pm, Blogger ianjamesjohnson said...

Thing is, Mark, that's not one of Plaid's recent policies (and, um, never was!)so the comparison doesn't really stand up too well.

 
At 2:11 pm, Blogger LabourMark said...

it was just a made up example not a real one

 
At 2:12 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can confirm that Plaid voted against the minimum wage because they considered it too low. It's typical of Labour supporters to mislead on this, as they have so little else to throw at Plaid in terms of being right wing.

My biggest disappointment with New Labour apart from the lies that took us into an illegal war, has been their privatising attitude to public services and their insistence on not having consultation legislation to give some protection to manufacturing, which has collapsed under their rule.

They have also de-valued politics by taking Thatcher's use of spin and developing it to a new level. This has done more to create cynicism within the electorate than any other issue.

The day that Welsh Labour are capable of putting Wales before themselves is the day that they will stop the rot within their own party. Relying wholly on the Tory bogeyman didn't work in the election and if the 3 party coalition delivers, will not work in the future.

Wake up and smell the fairtrade coffee Labourmark-Wales has sussed you out.

 
At 2:34 pm, Blogger Che Grav-ara said...

"Llanelli, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, and the council seats in Carmarthenshire, Swansea, Bridgend, Rhondda, Caerphilly, and I also belive the Labour voters who voted plaid in Carmarthen West and Preseli Pembs would come back to Labour and make thos eLbaour gains again."

I agree it might have an effect on the vote but you also have to realise in an area like Llanelli there was a 4,000+ swing to Plaid because people dont want Labour. Also the cams west result went the way of Tory so saying people dont want a tory there is a bit narrow minded.

As for cams east it has just secured the second biggest majority in the assembly with tories also taking votes from labour so i dont think it will impact largely there. These decisions will have more of an impact on a council level than anywhere else

 
At 2:36 pm, Blogger Ordovicius said...

Why? because IWJ should understand agaion people in Wales do not want the tories back in in what ever shape or form, wither in a formal coalition or and agreement

Incorrect. Somepeople don't. I hardly think having one or two Tory ministers in a coalition cabinet scares the majority of people.

 
At 2:44 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the rainbow coalition does happen (and it is still an if), there will be a couple of 'quick wins' in terms of policies and that will help settle things down. Labour will be carping away, calling people names and predicting the end of the world and that's when it will happen - the realisation with the electorate that there is a life after Labour in Wales and that all their predictions of death and destruction were somewhat over stated.

That's what is really terrifying Labour; being outed as the timid, conservative and stale bunch that they are.

 
At 3:05 pm, Anonymous der said...

.....but you know....the SNP have taken power in Scotland and families have been split up and British troops are on the streets....etc etc just as Labour more or less warned. LOL

 
At 4:05 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LabourMark said...
"As I stated it is a start isn't it. I personally didn't agree with the iraq war, tution fees, top up fees and many others. Sorry I do have a brian and I can think for myself. "

You're not leader of the party and what is objectionable is you are trying to present the party to us as something quite different to what it really is. Yes, the electorate also have brains, and think, and most voted against New Labour.

 
At 4:08 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LabourMark said...


*First- its not bullying tactics. Its educating the people of Wales *



Brain washing more like it.

 
At 5:44 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It looks like Labour have finally given in and offered Plaid something worth considering, but have they left it too late?

The Plaid AMs will have to decide if both options are now up for grabs, which they are likely to do. It will then go to NEC on Saturday which is likely to put both options to National Council on July 7th.

This where Rhodri may become unstuck as the previous meeting was firmly in favour of the Rainbow coalition and to date, few views have changed. It will take a few prominant pro-rainbowists to jump ship in order for Labour to save their skins.

 

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