Thursday, May 24, 2007
It's no secret that the Lib Dems' six AMs don't get on. Now, they've got no friends in any of the other parties either. A week after resoundingly turning their back on Labour, they have dealt a similar blow to the prospect of a Plaid-led rainbow coalition.
This is, quite simply, bizarre. The very same personnel that voted last week to end negotiations with Labour have now chosen opposition over government. This is despite the fact that none of the three groups which made up last night's meeting actually voted against a rainbow coalition.
The negotiating team and the AMs both voted in favour, but the national executive was a dead heat. Without a majority in all three groups, the Lib Dems could not authorise a special conference. In the end, the deal which promised to revolutionise the way politics is conducted in Wales has been scuppered by just one unelected officer on an internal Lib Dem council.
The consequences are enormous. Not only is Mike German's leadership now under severe threat but people will be left wondering, a la Simon Jenkins, what on earth are the Lib Dems for?
They've turned their noses up at the offer of PR in local government, which is the one big thing that set them apart. Now, it seems, they'd rather snipe from the sidelines than implement their own policies. No doubt we'll be hearing very soon what was lined up in the coalition document. It is certain, however, to make their election promise of maximum votes for maximum Lib Dem policies completely redundant.
On hospital reconfiguration, reducing class sizes and making the green switch they've turned down the chance to have it their own way.
Peter Black tells me that "in the end the party did not have the stomach for coalition." The rationale is that they can reinvent in opposition. But it is going to be stupendously difficult.
Because whatever government eventually takes power in Cardiff Bay, the Lib Dems will be coalition partners by proxy. By bailing out, they've left few alternatives and very little time. The government's mistakes will be the Lib Dems' mistakes because they engineered the circumstances which put them there.
They are, quite frankly, knee deep in it. To be an effective opposition, you must be free to criticise the government. But every time the Lib Dems open their mouths, the other parties will be quick to remind them that they had their chance and blew it.
Yesterday afternoon, the rainbow coalition document came back from its civil service going over - as if a sign was needed about how advanced the process had become.
The Plaid-Labour document, by contrast, never made it out of Helen Mary Jones' handbag. By committing to the rainbow route, Ieuan was obviously keen to shed his wobble. But had he adopted the more cautious approach of the 'feisty foursome' the next few hours might not be such a scramble.
It seems pretty clear that a Plaid-Tory deal is a non-starter. I put this to Nick Bourne on Tuesday and he laughed it off.
So, Plaid and Labour are left with barely 48 hours to cobble together a programme of government for Wales. And thanks to Labour, there's a 28-page document sitting there ready to go. Who knows, the politicians might finally find something to agree about.
posted by Blamerbell @ 2:51 am,
- At 3:55 am, Matt Wardman said...
You're burning the midnight oil! Just like old times on May 5th.
I've put together my analysis here:
My summary: The cachiad is about to hit the rotating cooling device. Maybe.
I've also pinged a couple of English sites to try and wake them up, but I think this will get across the Severn now.
Thanks for all the hard work. Will you be live blogging the next election?
- At 3:59 am, Matt Wardman said...
Sod it. Need a tinyurl. My article is here:
btw Hope I chose the right Welsh word.
- At 6:45 am, Peter D Cox said...
This is the worst possible display of the immaturity of Welsh politics that there could be. The electorate doesn't want Labour, yet Rhodri hangs on for grim death (since it is no longer passion that drives him - see policies - why on earth is he doing this?). The Lib Dems (and to confess I was once an SDP Alliance candidate) have quite simply wasted every vote the electorate gave them: they won't get them again, roll on the 2008 council elections.
Poor Conservatives, so near Power and it all whisked away: my own experience at hustings meetings suggested that they had some thoughtful people on board.
And then there's Plaid. The Plaid Valkeries of the Valleys made it clear that they'd rather have Labour lead than achieve a real sea change in Welsh political life. And like the Lib Dems they pretty well stuffed their leader (actually castration is a better metaphor).
What next? A gloating Rhrodi Morgan living out his retirement with an even longer good bye than Blair. PC parotting "it wasn't us, it was them!" but failing to deliver the actual polcies so most of Wales wanted.
Tories - didn't do bad, doing nothing. Lib-Dems: who'd be one, who'd want one?
And for Wales? A squandered opportunity to move into 21st century politics, the impact of which will take ten years to erase.
Every Welsh politician should appear next Wednesday in sack cloth and ashes.
- At 7:03 am, Normal Mouth said...
You seem to read a lot into the fact that the civil servants looked over the rainbow document. I don't know why. The civil servants are always keen to get stuck into a new programme of government as early as possible, even if it's not a done deal. Most departments of state do an analysis of the manifestos during a general election campaign - before any result is even known.
- At 7:15 am, said...
Rest in Pieces Welsh Politics
Well the Lib Dems have really caused havoc How can such a small group be allowed to do that- sigh
So we end up with Labour badly wounded trying to govern
I hope we get a chance really soon to go to the polls and get this sorted
Sad day for Wales
- At 7:25 am, Daran said...
Good morning. Just got up and yes, the political world is just as it was when I went to bed.
Nobody has yet tried to explain properly what the last six days has been about, and what the benefit of all this is to the Lib Dems.
The whole episode has been the equivalent of that sequence in Dallas where Pammie Ewing emerged from the shower to find that Bobby was still alive after all. A rainbow dream.
Rhodri is clearly the Patrick Duffy of Welsh politics.
- At 8:04 am, Valleys Mam said...
may be Rhodri is a timelord that would explain a lot
Any one heard what Ron Davies is saying on this
- At 8:16 am, NewWelshRight said...
I blogged last night about how hopeless the LibDems are. Beat them with their bar charts.
- At 8:24 am, Blamerbell said...
Matt, I doubt very much there'll be another election. The BNP would storm it!
Peter, yes. You've got to wonder how they'll justify all those votes people cast in favour of Lib Dem policies.
Normal mouth, that's because it's important - indicative of how far the rainbow document got while the Red-Green document was still patchy and highly contested.
Valleys Mam, I do wish you would punctuate! Especially after this much sleep:)
- At 8:37 am, said...
I hate to say it, because I hate the Lib Dems even more than Labour and Plaid, but WELL DONE!!!!!
- At 8:43 am, dowlais twp said...
well with the election system we have and the number of seats in the Senedd, welcome to continental style politics.
Having voted Lib Dem before won't bother in future, what a waste of a waste of a vote.
If there is a tie in first vote on Tuesday, how many tries do they get or does someone move to dissolve and hold an election?
- At 8:52 am, said...
There was no way the Lib Dems could of gone into that coalition. The agreement offered us very little and what achievements we did make we would net get credit for. Between the Conservative press machine and Plaid having the First Minister, no-one would have cared what we were doing.
People seem to want to blame us for not stepping up to the plate, but the other parties simply did not want to give us a real agreement. If Plaid and the Tories cannot work together on their own, that is their problem. We are not responsible for the actions of other parties.
This is the right outcome. If the other parties were serious about a coalition, they should of submitted a real proposal, not a rehash of the Plaid manifesto.
- At 8:54 am, said...
Lets just have another election and make sur that everyone who voted for the spineless Liberals and lying Labour party choose NOT to use their vote that way again!
At least the people of Wales now know who the people that stick to their word are.
I will be voting Tory if I get the chance, at least they have stood firm.
- At 9:00 am, said...
The Lib Dems AMs are finished. Take Kirsty for example, every unpopular decision in her constituency from increased council tax to hospital closures and the message will go out loud and clear, that's your fault bitch.
- At 9:37 am, said...
Why should anyone be surprised at the Lib Dem's indecisiveness. They really are an odd party populated by individuals who are often refugees from the Labour or Tory parties. At a council level they have survived by refusing to take any decisions. They had the opportunity to break the mould of welsh politics and they blew it. The Welsh political class has really excelled itself by its ineptitude in the past 3 weeks.I think we can forget about a referendum for extra power for at least a generation. Who in their right mind would vote to give this set of stars extra powers? It will be really interesting to watch the minority Labour government cope with the new financial climate after the CRS in October. The negotiations for next years's budget in the run up to council elections should be a joy to watch.
- At 9:44 am, said...
So the Fib Dems have decided that their members are not capable of deciding on the coalition. Surely this is not the party that puts its members first-well the 12 members of their NEC anyway.
The rainbow document will be published soon and I await with interest to see the reaction from the Fib Dem members when they realise what their spineless leaders have turned down.
They have bottled it for two reasons: -
+ They want to get rid of German which would be more difficult if he was tied into a coalition cabinet.
+ They don't want to lose the Councils they run in next year's elections.
Effectively, their vote last night was based on Local Government and not National Assembly politics and consequently, they have cursed Wales with another term of a stale and visionless Labour administration.
I predict one political certainty. The Fibs will move to create a rainbow coalition within weeks of next year's Council elections and will look for or create a policy that the 3 opposition parties can beat Labour with.
The question is though, will anyone trust them? Personally, I wouldn't trust them further than I could spit.
- At 9:50 am, said...
whether it would be a good thing or not, could any of the parties afford another election?
- At 9:54 am, said...
The permanently opinionated Peter Black is currently blocking all messages. I can't imagine why?
- At 9:57 am, said...
Labour are skint, the Libs would be struggling, the Tories would get a big bung from London and Plaid have some reserves.
Another election so soon would be a disaster with a dreadful turnout and a real possibility of the BNP getting in on the back of the last few weeks.
- At 9:59 am, said...
I voted Lib Dem in the list.Clearly they are not a serious political party.I shall not vote for them again.
- At 10:04 am, ianjamesjohnson said...
I guess that putting local council elections in front of the Welsh Assembly is what differentiates Plaid and the Liberal Democrats.
However, I'm confused by what they can gain under these circumstances.
The overwhelming majority of seats in their crown jewel councils, Cardiff and Swansea, seem pretty safe to me (maybe Caerau and Splott in Cardiff are marginal with Labour and Landore and Sketty in Swansea could be lost to the Tories). There were a couple of close run things in Bridgend (Coity has 6 votes in it from Labour, Oldcastle 8 from the Tories), while if Powys is the other council in their control, most of the seats are unopposed anyway.
So, what could they be gaining from not taking part in a coalition? Just as many of their 'under threat' seats are from the Tories as Labour, so a backlash either way would have the same effect and they would just have had to ride it (another issue of Focus here and there and a street surgery). While if it stays like this, they'll have annoyed all of the other parties and their activists.
I'm sure the answer will come out in time, but they give the impression of a deeply divided and indecisive party whose natural position is somewhere that their stasis can do no harm to man nor beast - a natural pressure group that sits in permanent opposition.
- At 10:06 am, Matt said...
That's one of my thoughts too.
- At 10:10 am, Martin Shipton's muse said...
Unfortunately I was on holiday during the National Assembly elections. Can anyone tell me who won?
- At 10:12 am, said...
who knows who won but maybe you might be here for Elections Round 2!
- At 10:13 am, Penddu said...
The LDs might as well add a tag line to all of their candidate nominations in the future - 'None of the Above'
Because that is clearly all that a vote for the LDs means - a wasted vote.
Whatever happened to the Weslh Liberal tradition of Lloyd George??
- At 10:41 am, said...
'A rush and a push and...the Liberals cried off'
I don't blame IWJ - it was all about momentum at one stage. Liberals eh? What are they good for? I don't think they've got a 'Welsh' vision anymore. They seem to have an appeal in those areas with numbers of floating, or dare I say, rootless voters, like university towns, or parts of Wales where people retire to. They don't know much about the country they're living in but don't want to vote Labour or Tory, and Plaid is just completly off the radar. Lloyd George must be rotating at a rate of knots..
- At 10:47 am, said...
The Lib Dems have spent an eternity campaigning for PR but have proven that they are the party who least understood the system.
Their election campaigning of building up individual personal votes might work in Westminster elections but if those people then don't vote for you on the list it does no good at all in PR elections.
Now they have also shown that they are incapable of negotiating after the election. If last week they had publicly said "We will only support Labour in return for PR in Local Government by 2012" Rhodri would probably have jumped at it. Instead they won't get anything and have now got to decided whether to hang German out to dry now or wait until after the (probably disaterous) local government elections next year. What a joke!
- At 11:02 am, Pads said...
From Peter Black's blog:
"Others said that they had voted for Liberal Democrats not for a coalition."
"The promises we made can still be delivered."
- At 11:12 am, said...
How can they deliver with 6 AMs, who don't even agree with each other?
There once was a Tory-free zone in terms of MPs. Maybe now is the time to campaign for a Lib Dem free-zone-at all levels. They are nothing more than a bunch of political con artists.
- At 11:15 am, Ted Jones said...
- At 11:15 am, said...
lib dems = "bunch of monkeys"
Mind you that's insulting to monkeys!
Perhaps fuckwits is more suitable!
- At 11:17 am, said...
ha ha ha
All you bitter Nats - you just thought opportunism was a one way street!
- At 11:22 am, Marcusian said...
'A rush and a push and...the Liberals cried off'
High five for the smiths reference-Particularly off Strangeways
"Theres too much caffeine in your bloodstream, and a lack of real spice in your life"
- At 11:22 am, Peter Black said...
"The permanently opinionated Peter Black is currently blocking all messages. I can't imagine why?"
No, all messages have been posted and all e-mails answered. Usual rules apply though, over the top abusive posts will be deleted.
- At 11:27 am, said...
this from LA's blog! it's satisfying that this has happened just to be able to see the fury in his face!!!!!!
What's the story? Morning, Tory!
Extract from my Rhondda Leader column today:
I must express my astonishment that, at the time I write, it appears that Wales could be faced with the prospect of Conservatives back in government. For the first time since 1997, we could see Conservative Ministers in government here in Wales – alone of all the nations of the United Kingdom.
The reason? It appears that Plaid Cymru, the Welsh nationalists, are willing to do a deal with the Conservatives to form a ragbag coalition to run Wales. Conservatives would get jobs in the Welsh Cabinet in exchange for supporting Plaid Cymru’s leader as First Minister of Wales.
Is that what Plaid Cymru and Liberal Democrat voters thought they were voting for on May 3rd?
The Welsh Assembly elections left Labour as the largest party, but without a majority. Rhodri Morgan has been talking to both the Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru to try to ensure a government which reflects the majority view in Wales, and which includes Labour as the largest party. But Plaid Cymru now wants to gang up with the Conservatives and Liberals.
- At 11:39 am, said...
'Leave me alone, because I'm alright, Dad.'
Wonder if Peter Black is a fan..
- At 11:41 am, said...
I deplore personal abuse but it is hard not to be abusive Mr. Black, when your party has just passed up the opportunity to break Labour's grip and deliver real change - for internal party reasons.
You are in no position to influence Assembly policy without any formal agreement and as the smallest party. The other parties also have no trust in you after your actions since the elections.
All parties have peaks and dips of support during a political cycle and I see the Liberal Democrats as on a downward curve since your peak in 2005. Quite how far this curve has to go is anyone's guess but I suspect that after yesterday evening's display, you have some way to go.
- At 11:43 am, said...
Very, very funny. That nasty Peter Black has spoiled the Nationalist party with his pesky principles! Bet you Ieuan is at home right now, wondering which voodoo doll to get to work on - Alex Salmond or Peter Black.
- At 11:47 am, said...
'+ They don't want to lose the Councils they run in next year's elections.'
That pretty given now. Last night showed what their real priorities are and it's not to their electorate.
- At 11:49 am, said...
So people always accuse the Lib Dems of being power hungry opportunists, yet then call them weak when the actually turn down a deal they don't think is right?
What are they meant to do exactly?
- At 11:53 am, said...
I'm fed up with all this class war, moral conceit from the so-called "socialists". Let's get it straight, most of these "socialists" work in the public sector - the real working class have more in common with the Tories than with this lot of smug super-annuated time servers. Socialism my arse.
- At 11:55 am, said...
"ha ha ha
All you bitter Nats - "
How do I know you're from the valleys? Because that's the only place that uses the term "nats" abusively, to anyone who is Plaid, to anyone who disagrees with Labour, to anyone who speaks Welsh, to anyone who does not adore your NuLabour icons etc etc. And someone was asking why the term "thugs" was being used to describe valleys Labour AMs? Well, if you like throwing mud you should accept some being thrown back.
- At 11:59 am, said...
Now let's see Labour back in power thanks to the Lib Dems - so Rural Wales gets hospital closures, higher council tax and school closures, yeh thanks lib dems.
So its goodbye from Lembit - who was on his way out anyway- Mark Williams (who he?)and Roger Williams. Two seats for the Tories and one for Plaid.
- At 12:00 pm, said...
..of seats in their crown jewel councils, Cardiff and Swansea, seem pretty safe to me ..
Swansea is not safe. Their hey day was over before this.
- At 12:08 pm, said...
"Cachu" or "cach" is probably better than "cachiad". Cachu conveys specific solid stuff, and Cach tends to mean solid stuff in general, whereas cachiad is an abstract noun, equivalent to the English "having a sh*t".
On second thoughts.....abstract might be more apt for a vanished rainbow
- At 12:08 pm, Pads said...
/That nasty Peter Black has spoiled the Nationalist party with his pesky principles!/
What prinicples were those exactly?
- At 12:15 pm, The Badger said...
Now that the Plaid/Tory/Lib Dem alliance has reached the end of the rainbow surely it is time for changes at the top of Welsh politics.
Perhaps Lord Elis-Thomas could be persuaded to leave the presiding officer's comfy armchair to resume the Plaid leadership. The leader of the opposition is paid around the same as the PO so he would be able to continue to live in the style to which he's become accustomed.
Nick Bourne has annoyed many Tories by trying to put Plaid Cymru into government but his obvious successor - Glyn Davies - is no longer an AM. The charisma shortage on the Tory benches could allow Nick to keep his job.
Mike German appears to have blown his chance of staying as Lib Dem leader. Kirsty Williams, the obvious replacement, "is not doing interviews today". So grand for one so young. Perhaps a caretaker leader is required to tide things over until Kirsty is ready to inherit.
Step forward Eleanor Burnham. As a qualified aromatherapist she would be ideal for expunging the nasty aromas surrounding Welsh politics during the last three weeks.
And the heat of a leadership election would also reveal whether that over-sized flower she wears is real or a fake she acquired the last time Billy Smart's circus was in Rossett.
- At 12:39 pm, said...
No i'm fed up with Labour and understanding how our voting system worked i used my votes tactically. My constituency vote went to te party who had the best change of beating labour and they nearly did it is now a close seat. My second vote went for i'm assamed to say peter black as I figured they needed the votes to keep labout out of a list seat. I felt that the lib dems wanted to make a change and work with other parties 4 wales. However, I have well and trully be taken in by their smoke and mirros. Why bother voting any more the system we have enables labout to stay in power. Might as well vote for loony parties just for fun next time.
- At 12:40 pm, Geraint said...
Using the same arguements used by Rainbow advocates, the majority will get what they want, if we do see a Red-Green/Plaid-Labour coalition (and with any luck we will) 51% voted for it.....
Anyway, with any luck an imformal deal between Labour and Plaid now, might lead onto a formal one sometimes in the future, petty party politics should have died in the Assembly, there is no reason why Plaid and Labour cannot co-operate or work together apart from the petty partisan mentality on both side.
The only two serious options left open now, a Labour-Plaid deal (hopefully formal, with both having cabinet seats, more likely informal though)or another election. I do not see why Welsh Labour should go it alone when it will end up blowing up in our faces, we should not be the sacrificial lambs, because of the Lib Dems, and petty minded "unionists" in Welsh Labour and partisan Plaid members.
- At 12:47 pm, said...
'From Peter Black's blog:
"Others said that they had voted for Liberal Democrats not for a coalition."
"The promises we made can still be delivered."
That's totally shocking. An example of ego overtaking common sense. And all thse promises over Neurosurgery at Morriston hospital? They had it on their leaflets. That's what we voted for, not for the Lib/Dems.
Will Peter Black apologise to his voters in Swansea now for misleading them?
- At 1:00 pm, said...
thanks to the spineless lib dems the rest of wales will now suffer, dueto the ever growing menace which is the republic of cardiff.
- At 1:05 pm, said...
I've heard that Plaid got the Liberals and Tories to agree to keep Morriston nuerosurgery open as part of the Rainbow pact. If this is true, then Peter Black has indeed closed it.
I wonder what the people of Swansea would think of this?
- At 1:08 pm, said...
If Plaid look for a stability pact with Labour, will Labour stick to their 28 page document (the one that the journalists got) or say sod off and offer a pittance?
The first choice would benefit Wales and the second Labour. Which one do you think they will choose?
- At 1:12 pm, said...
A good point!
Some good could come out of this mess after all if Labour and Plaid agreed on the latest deal. It would not only show that Labour are capable of putting Wales first but would also offer a change from the previous 8 years, with Labour still in control.
Add to that a stable Government and no involvement from the Liberals and just maybe, there is hope!
- At 1:18 pm, said...
Voting delegates have gathered enough signatures so that LD special conference is back on....membership want their say on deal...will plaid pick up the ball again?
- At 1:30 pm, Robbie Clifton said...
So some Lib Dem members want to have their say? With the greatest of respect, so what? Mike German has shown that (however unfairly) he cannot command the respect of loyalty of his Group. He can't get them to sign up for a deal, how can we expect him to marshall his troops in Government?
The bottom line is that Mike German and Ieuan Wyn Jones both had more than ample to form Governments with Labour, or each other and the Tories. They failed. I don't really think people can start moaning now if Labour take what mandate it has (more than the others, but not much of one!) and give it a go themselves.
And if the oppostion do nothing but oppose, they'll be seen for what they are - wreckers.
- At 1:37 pm, Pads said...
"LD special conference is back on."
It doesn't matter. They couldn't be relied upon when things got difficult. They obviously have issues to sort out amongst themselves.
- At 1:38 pm, said...
The deal between Labour and Plaid was not wrecked by IWJ but by Labour's double dealing-having two different versions of their 28 page document.
The journalist version may well have made enough Plaid AMs to take it more seriously. It was almost as though Labour wanted the rainbow coalition, but they didn't account for the Lib Dems ability to pxss everyone off.
Is this really serious about the Lib Dem members forcing a meeting? In fairness, they should not have been denied a voice in the first place.
- At 1:38 pm, said...
Badger - you're quite right about the Tories. Bourne is a disaster and should be got rid of immediately. The problem is that is is hard to see any member of the Conservative group who is a real Conservative.
- At 1:39 pm, said...
What is extraordinary is the cack-handed way IWJ handled this breakdown. Instead of saying he would put himself forward as leader of a miniority admin and look for a deal, he screamed and screamed until he was sick and then took his ball home with him.
Not a serious politician.
- At 1:54 pm, said...
Have you heard the latest?
The Lib Dems are now claiming that they threw the deal out because it wasn't costed (even though their AMs and main NEC thought that it was).
To make the farce even more fun, their members have apparently raised enough names to call a meeting to challenge last night's decision or at least be given the chance for them to decide.
Will they manage their meeting in time?
Can they stop Rhodri's crowning scheduled for tomorrow afternoon?
Will the rainbow re-appear if they get their way?
Will the other two parties still trust them?
Will Mike still be leader?
Will Mick Bates still talk bxllocks when he's drunk?
From a personal perspective, I intend to find a nice pub with real ale, a beer garden and friends from Labour and the Tories, sit back and watch the Libs rip themselves apart.
Now that is worth waiting for!
- At 1:56 pm, said...
"From a personal perspective, I intend to find a nice pub with real ale, a beer garden and friends from Labour and the Tories, sit back and watch the Libs rip themselves apart."
Sounds like my idea of a good time.
- At 2:05 pm, Guto said...
IWJ would, and should, never try to stand as a minority leader. A coalition between Plaid and the Tories would be vulnerable to collapse as it was, doing so while in the minority would be a recipie for disaster,
Plaid AM's the Plaid Exec and the Plaid members would never agree to a minority Plaid-Tory government.
Ieuan Wyn's speachw as very good and well to the point. The Libs Dem have shown their pathetic colours - so be it.
- At 2:06 pm, Guto said...
"From a personal perspective, I intend to find a nice pub with real ale, a beer garden and friends from Labour and the Tories, sit back and watch the Libs rip themselves apart."
May I join?
- At 2:15 pm, Ted Jones said...
If you want to see what all the fuss is about I've posted the agreement on my blog
- At 2:30 pm, said...
The document begins: "The people of Wales spoke clearly on May 3". Most didn't bother to vote, and no party secured the support of more than a fifth of those entitled to vote. Clear as mud, then.
- At 2:33 pm, said...
I can't work out what the Libs are against. they've even got toothpaste to go with their toothbrushes
- At 2:36 pm, martin shipton's muse said...
I've been leaked a precis of the agreement.
1. We hate Labour, we do.
2. No school or hospital should ever close, no matter what changes happen in education or health.
3. We should spend more to fill the higher education funding gap with England caused by our opposition to top-up tuition fees.
4. We should demand more independence from Westminster - and more money.
5. Er, that's it.
- At 2:37 pm, Mike Cridland said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
- At 2:44 pm, Mike Cridland said...
Whoever made the comment that Welsh politics exhibit a certain amount of immaturity was certainly right. However not for the reason that he gave.Certainly seen by the nasty comments thrown around by you all, anonymously or not. all we seen is a campaign based on getting Labour out. I admit I was for a "rainbow" coalition, but one that included red. In other words a government of national unity.
The Liberals can't seem to win. You say what use are they?! I should what use are you? This isn't about providing good government for Wales. Its about getting power, and keeping it. At least Liberals have the "huevos" to stand for something, and not to prop up some unholy alliance between the Tories and Plaid Cymru, just to keep Labour out. Alex Carlile was right in assertion about who support (or abstain) when it comes to government, Labour has the largest number of seats, they won the largest share of the votes. That's a fact. As for tactical voting can you really be sure that people who voted PC wanted a administration and vice versa? There was that comment from "New Right Wing" about the Liberals being "idiots". On his blog he devoted a post to why the Tories should not get into bed with PC. But who did this unashamed child of Mrs T call"idiot" So, he was for a coalition between the Tories and PC. That smacks to me of hypocrisy. Actually I wonder if the the Fairwater Conservative Club (Cardiff West)still has only the Union Jack flying outside it? Tories and Plaid Cymru! Oil and Water.
As for those smug Labour supporters. Just remember this! You have 26 seats. That is not a majority. The best you can do is run a minority administration. Do you understand Jolly Fornicator? m i n o r i t y, hows that?
As for the Lib Dem's, at least they have honest debate! This is about Wales. Not about Ieuan Wyn Jones wearing a crown, and a first for Plaid Cymru.
- At 2:45 pm, said...
Unlike one or two of you I have read it and in all honesty - it's inspiring. It has Lib Dem policies in it and offers a transformation of our nation.
For the Liberals to reject this is madness. We came so close to re-igniting the devolution flame only for it to be doused by small minded idiots.
- At 2:46 pm, said...
Here fucking here
- At 2:58 pm, said...
"I've heard that Plaid got the Liberals and Tories to agree to keep Morriston nuerosurgery open as part of the Rainbow pact. If this is true, then Peter Black has indeed closed it.
I wonder what the people of Swansea would think of this? "
It affects the whole of south west Wales so that's a big nail in the Lib/Dem coffin.
- At 2:59 pm, said...
What are you on about?
The Lib Dems have not been honest and clearly are also incapable of talking to or listening to their members. I don't think they really know what they want, which is probably why they chose nothing.
Wales needs a change of direction and politicians who are prepared to take calculated risks. Without such people, we will stay at the bottom of the economic and health league and this was our opportunity. The Libs made this decision not because of costings or what was best for Wales but for internal reasons. They want to change their leader and protect their Councils.
However much waffle you write to hide the true nature of the Lib Dems, their failrue to stand up for Wales this week will never be forgotten. A plague on all their houses.
- At 3:20 pm, Geraint said...
A minority government, of any party, be it Red, Green, Yellow or Blue would be a disaster for Wales. The next 4 years cannot be run by a minority, it will be a disaster for Wales and for devolution if Labour and Plaid cannot co-operate together and form a pact or coalition. We need to do what is best for Wales and best for the future of devolution, what matters is delivering for the Welsh people and what would be best for Wales, and a minority government of any colour wouldn't work, it would damage devolution and would hold Wales back.
The Welsh political parties need to grow up, and grow up fast, I find it embarassing that in Wales we cannot even form a stable government.
Labour and Plaid can work together and both need to offer each other face saving measures in a deal, and both need to ensure it works to save face for Wales and devolution too.
- At 3:59 pm, said...
The trouble with a Plaid/Labour coalition is that Labour are so bloody conservative, parochial and mean-spirited.
- At 4:07 pm, said...
If the Morriston Neurosurgery unit closes, then surely the only people to blame are Brian Gibbons and the Labour party who could have ensured its future by making a decision before the election and not cynically deferring it to keep themselves in jobs?
Plaid desperately played party politics with this issue throughout the election campaign, and the voters didn't buy it then either. Grow up!
- At 4:30 pm, said...
"If the Morriston Neurosurgery unit closes, then surely the only people to blame are Brian Gibbons and the Labour party who could have ensured its future by making a decision before the election and not cynically deferring it to keep themselves in jobs?
Plaid desperately played party politics with this issue throughout the election campaign, and the voters didn't buy it then either. Grow up!"
It is grown up politics. Labour made a political decision to close it and Plaid intended to do the same to keep it open. Plaid were the only party in the Assembly where all their AMs voted to keep the Unit open and pledged to do so if they led a coalition.
Subsequently, Plaid's Dr. Dai Lloyd got both the Lib Dems and the Tories to agree that the retention of the unit would be a policy in the document. If the Lib Dems had supported the vote last night, the Unit would have been saved. They didn't and so it closes.
Plaid made it party political as this was the only way to save the unit. Sadly, it meant relying on the Liberal democrats and as Wales knows from last night, their word is worthless.
All Plaid can now do is to appeal to Labour to save the unit as part of an agreement. At least the Tories kept their word.
- At 5:05 pm, said...
"At least the Tories kept their word."
The Tories would have licked your boots if it meant them getting a sniff of power in Wales again, so don't give me that rubbish!
- At 7:30 pm, said...
"The Tories would have licked your boots if it meant them getting a sniff of power in Wales again, so don't give me that rubbish!"
Er....I think you're the one talking rubbish here.
- At 12:04 am, said...
Any chance that Plaid's feminist leftie social worker wing might scoot off and run a drop-in centre somewhere?
- At 4:13 am, said...
pissed off with voting said...
Might as well vote for loony parties just for fun next time.
Why not? Just some of their policies included:- Votes at 18, low floor buses for wheelchair users and a duplication of the Monopolies Commission.
Certainly no worse than what we have.
Your partisan pal.
- At 12:26 am, said...
I see Anonymous 12.04 am's rainbow doesn't include feminist lefties, then. Boys only is it? It certainly seems like from the Taliban intolerance now being displayed. And that's before they're in power.
I've read all three 'coalition agreements'. They're much the same only the Tory Coalition one is all motherhood (that's their new role) and apple pie. For example, one shiny bead for romantic Welsh nationalists - a full parliament - will fail all three hurdles: Welsh Assembly, Commons and Lords. Doh!